The March For Life; President Donald Trump's Cabinet

THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.•• FIRST, THE MARCH FOR LIFE, CHANGING POLICIES ON REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH AFTER THE HISTORIC WOMEN'S MARCH.

NEXT, THE FACE OF THE TRUMP CABINET.

[♪♪] HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, WOMEN'S HEALTH AND REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

LATE THIS WEEK OPPONENTS TO ABORTION RIGHTS GATHERED IN WASHINGTON FOR THE MARCH FOR LIFE.

BUSES CAME FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY FILLED WITH STUDENTS AND PRO-LIFE ACTIVISTS WHO FEEL ENERGIZED BY THEIR NEW ALLIES IN THE WHITE HOUSE, PRESIDENT TRUMP AND VICE PRESIDENT PENCE WHO SPOKE TO THE CROWD.

SENIOR ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT TRUMP, KELLYANNE CONWAY WAS THE HEADLINER RALLYING THE CROWD DEDICATED TO OVERTURNING ROE V. WADE, THE SUPREME COURT RULING THAT LEGALIZED ABORTION IN EARLY IN THE 1970S.

ALSO IN THE CROWD, ADVOCATES WHO WANTED TO MAKE THE POINT THAT "PRO-LIFE" DOESN'T STOP AT BIRTH.

EARLIER THIS WEEK PRESIDENT TRUMP SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER REINSTATING THE GLOBAL GAG RULE.

THE GAG RULE ALSO KNOWN AS THE MEXICO CITY POLICY BARS FEDERAL FUNDING FOR FOREIGN ORGANIZATIONS THAT PERFORM ABORTIONS OR EVEN MENTIONS THEM AS AN OPTION TO WOMEN.

CRITICS CLAIM THE LOSS OF US AID WILL ACTUALLY INCREASE UNINTENDED PREGNANCIES, UNSAFE ABORTIONS, MATERNAL AND NEWBORN DEATHS AS WELL AS REVERSE PROGRESS THAT'S BEEN MADE FIGHTING HIV.

TRUMP SIGNED THE ORDER IN FRONT OF A GROUP OF SEVEN WHITE MEN TWO DAYS AFTER MILLIONS OF WOMEN MARCHED IN WASHINGTON, OTHER AMERICAN CITIES AND AROUND THE WORLD WITH A CALL FOR GENDER EQUALITY AND COMPREHENSIVE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH RIGHTS.

SPEAKERS AND ACTIVISTS ARE CALLING ON MARCHERS TO CONTINUE THE RESISTANCE AND TO START BY CALLING THEIR SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES TO INSIST THEY CONTINUE FUNDING PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

>> HAS PRESIDENT TRUMP NOW LAUNCHED HIS OPEN WAR ON WOMEN?

>> I DO NOT THINK HE LAUNCHED A WAR ON WOMEN BUT CONTINUING THE UP WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY LAUNCHED A FEW YEARS AGO.

>> HE WILL BE OUR WARRIOR FOR WOMEN.

>> I THINK HE HAS WITH HIS CABINET MEMBERS AND VICE-PRESIDENTIAL PICK.

DONALD TRUMP LIKES TO PLAY THE GAME LET'S FOLLOW THE LEADER WHEREVER HE MAY GO.

>> I SAY THE OPPOSITE THERE IS A SWATH OF WOMEN WHO DECLARED WAR ON DONALD TRUMP RATHER THAN THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

>> HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT GIVEN HE HAS A CABINET THAT IS MORE WHITE AND MORE MALE THAN ANYONE SINCE PRESIDENT REAGAN 35 YEARS AGO, THAT HE -- THERE IS A MAJORITY PROBABLY OF PEOPLE IN THAT CABINET WHO BELIEVE IN PERSON HOOD THAT MEANS, INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS UNDER CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS FOR FETUSES, HOW DO YOU SAY THAT IS NOT A WAR ON WOMEN?

>> WELL, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE OPPOSITE.

I'M SAYING WOMEN CAME TO THE CITY AND CAME ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO PROTEST DONALD TRUMP TO FOCUS ON THAT AGENDA AND NOT ON THE FACT THAT THERE ARE A SWATH OF ISSUES THAT WOMEN COULD COME TOGETHER ON RATHER THAN DIVIDING US AND THAT IS PART OF THIS.

OUR PRESIDENT OBVIOUSLY HAS ENGAGED IN HAVING WOMEN ON THE CABINET WHICH IS GREAT.

I'M FOCUSED ON THE POLICIES THAT HE IS GOING TO PUT FORWARD.

>> I THINK WOMEN ARE FIGHTING BACK AND THE MARCH FOR WOMEN MADE THAT CLEAR BUT IT'S ALSO VERY CLEAR WHEN WE SAW DONALD TRUMP THE PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS AND THAT IMAGE OF DONALD TRUMP REINSTATING THE GLOBAL GAG RULE WITH SEVEN WHITE MEN SURROUNDING HIM.

YES, WOMEN ARE GOING TO FIGHT BACK BUT HE IS GOING TO BE ATTACKING US CONSISTENTLY.

>> NO.

NO.

NO, IN FACT I THINK YOU WILL SEE THINGS COME OUT OF THIS ADMINISTRATION THAT WOMEN WILL BE PLEASED ABOUT.

AND IN TERMS OF THE PERSONHOOD, TWO OR THREE MEMBERS -- NIF'S SEEN SURVEYS AND A MAJORITY THERE ARE FEW WHO ARE NOT.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT.

>> THERE IS DeVOS'.

>> THESE ARE THREE OR FOUR THAT ARE ADVOCATES ON THAT.

MOST ARE NOT.

MOST ARE NOT ENGAGED.

IT IS NOT A SIGNATURE ISSUE FOR TRUMP AT ALL IT IS FOR PENCE.

>> SO I WAS IN ETHIOPIA WHEN THE LAST GLOBAL GAG RULE WAS GOING ON.

AND THE EFFECT IS DEVASTATING ON WOMEN AROUND THE WORLD.

AND WE LOOK STUPID.

>> HOW STUPID DO WE LOOK THOUGH IN YOUR ESTIMATION NOW THAT HOLLAND A SMALLER COUNTRY HAS STEPPED IN AND SAID WHERE THE U.S. HAS STOPPED PROVIDING FUNDS WE'LL GUARANTEE IT TO EVERY NGO AND IT WAS A HALF BILLION WORTH OF FUNDS WHAT DOES THAT MAKE US LOOK LIKE IN INTERNATIONAL EYES?

>> WE LOOK STUPID AND ANTI-WOMEN.

AND IT IS ANTI-WOMEN.

WHEN YOU MAKE A WOMAN WHO IS HIV POSITIVE THAT SHE GOT FROM HER HUSBAND, GO TO ONE CLINIC AND MAKE HER WALK SEVEN MILES IN ETHIOPIA TO GET HER BIRTH CONTROL BECAUSE THE U.S. WILL NOT FUND BIRTH CONTROL.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT WE WON'T FUND ABORTIONS IN OTHER COUNTRIES THIS IS WE WILL NOT FUND BIRTH CONTROL FOR WOMEN.

>> THAT A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT.

I WORKED ON THE GLOBAL GAG RULED AND LOBBIED AGAINST IT MAKING SURE THE U.S.

STOPS BEING A PARTISAN FOOTBALL FOR OVER A DECADE WITH THE FEMINIST MAJORITY FOUNDATION.

AND PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE DOMESTIC POLITICS AROUND ABORTION SPILLED ON TO THE INTERNATIONAL ARENA AND THE GLOBAL GAG RULE IS MUCH MORE THAN ABORTION.

ANY ORGANIZATION SO AND IT WOULD BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL IN THE U.S.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, IN BANGLADESH A LOT OF THE CLINICS CLOSED ARE THE ONLY CLINICS IN THE VILLAGES.

SO IF I WORKED AT A CLINIC AND YOU CAME TO ME AND I KNEW AN ABORTION WOULD BE A LIFE-SAVING SERVICE I COULD NOT TELL YOU AND PASS YOU A PAMPHLET IN RISK OF LOSING MY FUNDING.

>> AND I HAVE TO AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IT'S NOT OUR FINEST WAY OF DEALING WITH THE ISSUE.

AND I WOULD SAY TO PENCE AND KELLYANNE AND OTHERS THAT ARE HARDCORE ON THE CHOICE ISSUE -- >> BANNON.

>> THAT IS NOT HIS CHOICE ISSUE.

BUT THE POINT IS, THAT THAT IS NOT THE WAY YOU REDUCE ABORTION INTERNATIONALLY.

THAT IS THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO DO IT AND I'VE ADVOCATED FOR YEARS THAT WE HAVE COMMON GROUND DISCUSSIONS IN OUR PARTY AND BETWEEN PARTIES AS TO THINGS THAT ARE EFFECTIVE AND I DO NOT THINK THE GAG RULE IS THE BEST WAY TO GO.

>> AND THE U.S. HAS THE HELMS AMENDMENT NO U.S. FUNDS CAN BE USED FOR ABORTION I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY WE HAVE TO KEEP ON -- >> PILING ON.

>> IT IS A SHOCKER BUT FOR ONCE ALL FOUR OF US AGREE.

>> AS AN ADVISER TO THE TRANSITION TEAM, HOW DO YOU -- AND ONE WHO FOUNDED REPUBLICANS FOR CHOICE, I DON'T GET IT HOW YOU SQUARE -- >> YOU ADVOCATE AND PUSH FOR COMMON GROUND.

I HAVE ALLIES THAT BELIEVE THAT THAT IS THE WAY TO GO IN THE FUTURE.

I HAVE GREAT HOPES AS I'VE SAID BEFORE HERE, THAT EIVANKA IS GOING TO BE A CHAMPION FOR WOMEN AND THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO ADDRESS OTHER AVENUES AND WE WILL BE WORKING IT.

YOU CAN FIND WAYS THAT BOTH SIDES CAN AGREE ON THE BEST METHODS TO ACHIEVE THE END GOAL OF REDUCING ABORTION WHICH IS GOOD FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

>> I'M GLAD YOU HAVE FAITH IN IVANKA.

I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THE GAG RULE WENT IN UNDER PRESIDENT BUSH AND LAURA BUSH WAS ACTUALLY PRO-CHOICE AND HER HUSBAND DID NOT CHANGE.

AND THAT GAG RULE WENT IN.

THAT DOESN'T GIVE ME A LOT OF FAITH.

>> AND MAD RESPECT TO IVANKA, PATRON SAINT OF OUR HOPE, BUT COME ON AT THE END OF THE DAY SHE IS USED AS A PR MOVE MORE THAN ANYTHING TO -- >> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

>> THE WOMAN'S MARCH OF LAST WEEKEND.

HOW MUCH -- HOW ARE THEY GOING TO HARNESS THAT ENERGY IF AT ALL AND MOVE FORWARD?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO SAY IT WAS GREAT I LOVED BEING THERE.

AND I TALKED TO A LOT OF WOMEN AND ACTUALLY GOT TOGETHER WITH A WOMAN'S GROUP TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE ARE GOING TO NETWORK AND KEEP THESE CONNECTIONS GOING.

AND THINGS LIKE HOW WE ARE GOING TO GET MONEY TO WOMEN FOR START UP COMPANIES ALL KINDS OF WAYS TO EMPOWER WOMEN.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I TALKED TO A LOT OF WOMEN ABOUT WHO WERE ENTHUSIASTIC WAS THIS IS GREAT, BUT YOU GOT TO SHOW UP ON THE DAY OF THE ELECTION.

IT'S GREAT TO BE UPSET NOW, IT'S GREAT TO SHOW UP.

IT'S WONDERFUL, BUT WE HAVE TO SHOW UP ON ELECTION DAY.

>> ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT THE THREE MILLION WOMEN AROUND THE WORLD EXCEPT THE ONES THAT LIVE IN OTHER COUNTRIES HOW MANY IN THE U.S., THAT THOSE WOMEN WHO SHOWED UP THAT MARCH THERE WERE AMONG THEM MANY WOMEN WHO DID NOT VOTE?

>> NO.

NO.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

I'M TALKING ABOUT GETTING OUT THE VOTE.

THOSE WOMEN AND THAT ENERGY THAT WAS THERE, THOSE ARE THE ONES WE STAY CONNECTED TO AND REACH OUT AND BRING OTHER WOMEN TO THE POLLS.

>> IT'S NOT LIKE EVERY PERSON THAT CAME OUT AT THE MARCH IS GOING TO BE POLITICALLY ACTIVE BUT A LOT OF GROUPS THE FOLLOWING DAY HELD TRAININGS, THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS, EMILY'S LIST, AND I THINK -- >> TRAININGS FOR WHAT?

>> TRAININGS FOR WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE.

THE UNITED STATES OF WOMEN HAS A LOT OF TRAINING.

>> EMILY'S LIST HAD A TRAINING DO YOU WANT TO RUN THIS IS HOW YOU RUN.

>> AND WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ORGANIZERS OF THE MARCH THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE GREAT PINK HATS THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE.

>> THAT MARCH IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

>> NO, IT'S NOT.

BECAUSE ALSO THEY HURT THEIR CAUSE WITH SOME OF THEIR -- >> EXCEPT TO GET HIM VERY UPSET OVER HIS SIGNATURE ISSUE WHICH IS SIZE MATTERS.

CROWD NUMBERS.

>> RIGHT.

AND HE WAS IMPRESSED BY THAT.

AS I TOLD YOU IN ADVANCE OF THE MARCH, THE WORD WENT OUT TO HAVE NO COUNTER PROTESTS LET THE WOMEN HAVE THEIR SAY AND BE RESPECTFUL AND WATCH AND LISTEN.

HE GOT PART OF THE MESSAGE WHICH HE NEEDS TO PAY MORE ATTENTION TO WOMEN AND HE WILL.

BUT HE ALSO -- >> DON'T YOU THINK THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RUNNING THE TRANSITION, SELECTING THE CABINET MEMBERS ARE PENCE AND BANNON.

THEY DON'T SEEM TO -- >> NO, THEY HAVE SOME INFLUENCE BUT THERE ARE OTHER PLAYERS ON THAT.

>> WHO ARE THE OTHER ONES?

>> TRANSITION IS GONE.

SO IT'S AFTER THE FACT.

BUT I DO WANT TO MAKE THE POINT THAT THEY HURT THEIR CAUSE WITH MADONNA AND ASHLEY JUDD.

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AT THE MARCH BUT SITTING BACK IN THEIR HOMES SAYING I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA UNTIL I HEARD THE PEOPLE.

THEY PLAYED AGAIN AND AGAIN HAS HURT THEM.

AND WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS SUCH A CONFUSION OF ISSUES AND THERE WAS NOT A FOCUS, REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS IS PART OF IT AND OTHER THINGS WERE PART OF IT IT WILL BE HARD FOR THEM TO TURN THIS.

>> FOCUSED ON MORE THAN ONE DAY EVERYONE KNOWS A GRASSROOTS EFFORT IS GOING TO PERPETUATE ITSELF AND WE HOPE THE PRESIDENT IS LISTENING AND ENGAGING ON MORE THAN A DIALOGUE ABOUT CHOICE.

THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES THAT IMPACT WOMEN I HOPE WE WILL SEE MOMENTUM ON AND GETTING WOMEN TO RUN FOR OFFICE, GET INVOLVED IN YOUR LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS AND YOU CAN RUN FOR OFFICE AND BE PART OF THE POLICY MAKING AND MORE WOMEN WERE MOTIVATED TO INSPIRE THEM TO GET INVOLVED AND HAVE A VOICE.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT 2016?

WHAT ABOUT -- 2018?

2016 IS BEHIND US.

2018, IS THERE -- IS THERE ORGANIZING NOT TO JUST GET WOMEN TO RUN FOR OFFICE BUT TO ALSO GET CANDIDATES IN THE SENATE READY AND SENATE STATES WHERE REPUBLICAN INCUMBENTS ARE UP TO BOLSTER THE DEMOCRATS AND FIND MORE HOUSE CANDIDATES?

>> RIGHT AS YOU KNOW IN THE SENATE NOW WE HAVE MORE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE UP FOR REELECTION VERSUS HOW IT WAS.

>> 25 DEMOCRATS -- >> SO THAT IS GOING ON.

AND I WILL ALSO SAY ONE THING THAT IS GOING ON AND AT FULL FORCE IS LOOKING AT REDISTRICTING AND WHAT ERIC HOLDER AND FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA ARE DOING THAT ORGANIZATION IS GROWING AND THAT IS GOING TO BE STRONG.

AND THE DEMOCRATS FINALLY REALIZING HEY WE HAVE BEEN LOSING THE REDISTRICTING WARS FOR DECADES AND HERE IS THE EFFECT ON OUR STATES AND OUR STATE OFFICES AND THAT MATTERS.

>> THERE WAS A LOT OF INSPIRATION FOR YOUNG WOMEN TOO I'M ON THE BOARD OF RUNNING START AND THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT POURED IN SINCE THE ELECTION AND THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS BECAUSE YOUNG WOMEN ARE SAYING YOU KNOW LET'S GET YOUNG WOMEN TO GET TRAINED AND YOU HAD HOW TO BE INVOLVED AND HOW TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY THROUGH PUBLIC SERVICE OR OTHERWISE.

I'M INSPIRED THAT YOUNG WOMEN WILL RUN.

>> AS I UNDERSTAND IT, MILLENNIAL WOMEN VOTERS ARE MORE PRO-LIFE THAN PRIOR GENERATIONS.

>> MORE ISSUES THAN JUST THAT ISSUE AFFECTING WOMEN.

>> I'M JUST SAYING TALKING ABOUT GETTING WOMEN TO RUN FOR OFFICE WHO ARE PRO-CHOICE OR PRO THE CLICHE VERSION OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS, ARE MILLENNIALS GOING TO BE THAT?

>> I HOPE SO.

THAT IS WHAT I THINK.

I THINK THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY THERE BUT TO THE REDISTRICTING POINT THERE IS A DIALOGUE ABOUT DIVERSE VOICES IN CONGRESS MORE THAN WHAT WE HAVE IN THE DEMOCRATIC AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> HERE IS WHAT I THINK ANYTHING THAT GETS WOMEN MORE ENERGIZED MAKES IT BETTER FOR ALL OF US.

I'M EXCITED THAT THEY HAVE DONE ANYTHING TO GET WOMEN MORE INVOLVED.

>> AND THE MARCH WAS GREAT AND IT WAS WELL TIMED BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO REENERGIZE THE SPACE AFTER I MEAN, I DID NOT GET OUT OF BED FOR TWO DAYS AFTER THE ELECTION.

IT WAS CRUSHING.

IT WAS A CRUSHING DEFEAT.

>> WE NEEDED THE MARCH.

>> I GOT OUT OF BED.

[LAUGHTER] >> BUT I DO THINK IT WAS GREAT AND I THINK IT WAS ENERGIZING AND IT'S GOOD TO POINT OUT THIS WAS NOT JUST ABOUT CHOICE.

IT WAS SO MANY WAYS IT WILL BE HARD TO BRING EVERYBODY TOGETHER BECAUSE A LOT OF AMERICAERS DISAGREED WITH EACH OTHER ON OCCUPY WALL STREET AND WHATEVER IT WAS THERE WERE PRO-LIFE FEMINISTS THERE.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE @BONNIEERBE.

FROM WOMEN'S RIGHTS TO WOMEN IN THE CABINET.

FROM WOMEN'S RIGHTS TO WOMEN IN THE CABINET.

PRESIDENT TRUMP'S INITIAL CABINET WILL HAVE MORE WHITE MALES THAN ANY PRESIDENT SINCE RONALD REAGAN 35 YEARS AGO (1981).

IF HIS NOMINEES ARE CONFIRMED, WOMEN AND NONWHITES WILL HOLD FIVE OF 22 CABINET OR CABINET-LEVEL POSITIONS.

THEY ARE TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY ELAINE CHAO, EDUCATION SECRETARY BETSY DEVOS, UNITED NATIONS AMBASSADOR NIKKI HALEY AND LINDA MCMAHON AS SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATOR.

DEVOS FACES CRITICISM FOR LACKING EXPERIENCE AND COMMITMENT TO PUBLIC EDUCATION AND A LACK OF SUPPORT FOR PUBLIC FUNDING TO SUPPORT FEDERAL POLICIES SUCH AS TITLE IX.

SHE'S ALSO BEEN AN ADVOCATE FOR SCHOOL CHOICE INCLUDING THE EXPANSION OF CHARTER SCHOOLS AND TAX-PAYER FUNDED VOUCHERS FOR PRIVATE AND RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT IS A SENIOR ROLE BUT NOT CABINET LEVEL.

ANNE WHY ARE THERE SO FEW WOMEN IN THE KA AND L CABINET?

THE OTHER POSITIONS WAS THE INTERIOR.

AND KATHERINE WAS UNDER CONSIDERATION.

AND WE'LL SEE HOW HE DOES.

AND KATHY DOES NOT END UP THERE EVENTUALLY.

BUT I THINK -- >> WAS THAT HER DECISION OR THE TRANSITION TEAM?

>> I CANNOT TELL YOU FOR SURE.

AND ALSO MARY FALLON THEY LOOKED AT GOVERNOR FALLON AND MARSHA BLACKBURN FOR POSITIONS WITHIN THE CABINET.

IT DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

HIS LEVEL OF FEMALES ACTUALLY IS EQUAL TO GEORGE BUSH THE FIRST.

THE LAST TIME THEY HAD THAT LEVEL.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT THEY WENT OUT AND FOUND THE MOST QUALITY PEOPLE THAT COULD HANDLE EACH ISSUE THAT WERE WILLING TO TAKE THE JOB.

SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO GET WOMEN TO TAKE THE JOB.

>> I TELL YOU WHY THERE ARE SO FEW WOMEN.

BECAUSE HE IS A SEXIST MA SONGNIST.

>> HE IS.

>> HE IS.

>> AND THE ONE THING HE IS CONSISTENT WITH AND I WILL GIVE THIS TO DONALD TRUMP HE IS ABOUT MALE WHITE POWER AND -- >> NO HE ISN'T.

>> HE COULD NOT FIND ENOUGH QUALIFIED WOMEN?

MAYBE HE SHOULD CALL ROMNEY FOR HIS BINDERS OF WOMEN.

>> AND LET ME SAY, AND REALLY IN ALL DUE RESPECT THESE ARE THE SAME ARGUMENTS WE HAVE HEARD BEFORE.

SOME OF THE WOMEN DON'T WANT IT.

IT'S THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON AND THAT IS -- I JUST -- [ALL TALKING AT ONCE] >> WE HAVE HEARD OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND HAVING DONE THE SHOW FOR 25, THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH QUALIFIED WOMEN.

I HAVE TO SAY IT'S NEW THING WHO WOULD TAKE THE JOB.

AND THAT DOESN'T SPEAK VERY WELL OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

>> ACTUALLY YES I WAS GOING TO GET TO THAT POINT, TOO.

WELL TAKEN BECAUSE IT MAY BE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF WOMEN THAT DO NOT WANT TO BE IN THIS ADMINISTRATION.

CONSIDERING THIS PRESIDENT AND THIS HISTORY AND THINGS THAT HE HAS SAID.

NO THAT COULD BE THAT THERE ARE WOMEN -- >> I HAVE A FRIEND OR A GREEN REPUBLICAN ALL THREE OF THEM LEFT IN THE COUNTRY, BUT SHE WAS CALLED NOT ABOUT EPA ADMINISTRATOR BUT DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR.

AND SHE SAID DEPENDS WHO IT IS.

IF IT'S SOMEBODY THAT I CAN GET ALONG WITH FINE, BUT SOMEBODY ELSE I WOULDN'T.

>> DONALD TRUMP A MAN HIRED AS MANY WOMEN IN EXECUTIVE POSITIONS AND PAY THEM EQUALLY UNLIKE HILLARY CLINTON WHO HAD A TERRIBLE HISTORY OF EQUAL PAY.

THAT IS NOT TRUE.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THROUGHOUT HIS ORGANIZATIONIZATIONS.

>> THE -- THAT IS WHY HE HAS FOUR WOMEN.

[ALL TALKING AT ONCE] >> YOU COULD NOT NAME THREE WOMEN.

>> WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT HE IS CONSISTENTLY PAID WOMEN HE HIRED MORE WOMEN?

WHERE IS THE DOCUMENTATION?

>> SEND YOU THE ARTICLES IN THE BACKUP.

>> AND THE ONE ARTICLE I READ ABOUT A WOMAN WHO WORKED FOR HIM AND WAS -- >> TRUMP TOUR.

>> SHE SAID THE MEN MADE MORE THAN WE DID BUT THEY HAD LAW DEGREES AND I DID NOT HAVE A LAW DEGREE.

>> YOU'VE SEEN ARTICLES ON HER AND FROM HER ON BOTH SIDES.

SHE HAS BEEN BACK AND FORTH WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS A GOOD THING THERE IS A LONG HISTORY ANYBODY THAT WANTS THE INFORMATION I WOULD BE HAPPY TO SEND IT TO THEM.

>> I WOULD BE EAGER TO SEE THE POLITICAL APPOINTEES NOT CABINET SECRETARIES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A CABINET.

OR A DIRECTORS IN AMERICA YOU HAVE 10% OF WOMEN ARE ONBOARDS HAVE 10% WOMEN MAKEUP AND WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT FOR DONALD TRUMP'S CABINET.

I'M NOT GOING TO SAY IT'S WONDERFUL BUT I WILL SAY IT OPERATES ON THE STANDARD THAT OUR CORPORATIONS OPERATE ON WHICH WE NEED TO IMPROVE UPON AND PRESIDENT OBAMA AND PRESIDENT CLINTON MAYBE WOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AND SEE.

>> I HAVE AN IMPORTANT QUESTION: UNDER CLINTON WAS I BELIEVE THE FIRST TIME THAT THEY STARTED RELEASING DATA ON HOW MANY SUBCABINET PERSONNEL WERE WOMEN, BLACK, ASIAN, LATINA, WHATEVER.

OK?

BUSH THE SECOND STOPPED THAT.

OBAMA REINSTATED IT.

IS THERE ANYWAY IN THE WORLD YOU THINK WE WILL GET THOSE DATA FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?

>> I THINK HERE IS A GOOD CHANCE.

AND AGAIN, BECAUSE IVANKA, YES, SAINT IVANKA TO YOU IS GOING TO BE PUSHING MORE AND MORE.

I THINK YOU PROBABLY WILL.

BECAUSE YOU WILL HEAR ABOUT A LOT OF SUCCESSES SHE HAS.

AND THE INTERESTING THING THERE WAS A ROORMER THAT -- RUMOR THAT TRUMP WAS GOING TO CUT FUNDING IN THE AGENCIES FOR THE WOMEN'S PROGRAMS AND I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BUT HELL NO IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AND IVANKA IS INVOLVED WITH THE APPOINTMENTS TO THE POSITIONS.

SHE INTENDS TO PUT TOGETHER A FORCE IN GOVERNMENT TO PUSH HARD.

AND I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE -- >> PUSH AGAINST CUTS.

>> AND IMPROVEMENTS FOR WOMEN IN POLICIES THAT WILL BENEFIT WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND WORKING MOTHERS INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THE HOME.

>> YOU KNOW HER PAID WORK LEAVE PLAN WAS PANNED BY FEMINISTS.

>> AND THAT IS A FIRST DRAFT AND YOU BUILD FROM THERE.

AND JUDGE HER ON PERFORMANCES -- >> THE -- >> OVER WHAT THE PERFORM MIGHT BE.

LET'S JUDGE ON WHAT HAPPENS.

>> WHY DOES SHE SAY WITH HER MOVE TO WASHINGTON SHE WILL BE A DAUGHTER AND RESETTLE HER FAMILY.

>> NO, THAT IS WHAT SHE IS DOING.

SHE HAS TO GET SETTLED IN.

>> AND HER DAD -- I WANT TO INTERJECT HER FATHER DID SAY SHE IS BUSY WITH THE KIDS.

>> RIGHT NOW.

>> IT WAS NOT A POSITIVE THING IT WAS NOT AN EMPOWERING THING TO SAY.

>> IT WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT HE MISSTATED SOMETHING AND IT WILL NOT BE THE LAST.

BUT THE POINT IS IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THE OFFICE OF THE FIRST LADY BURT THE FIRST FAMILY AND SHE IS ENGAGED THERE.

DINENA POWELL WILL BE ONE OF HER CHIEF POINT PEOPLE IN PUSHING THIS AGENDA FORWARD AND YOU WILL BE SURPRISED AND SIX MONTHS A YEAR FROM NOW YOU WILL BE SEEING YOU WERE SO RIGHT.

>> I CAN'T WAIT.

>> BOY.

[LAUGHTER] >> YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

[LAUGHTER] >> THERE'S SO MUCH THERE.

WE ARE CREATING THE OFFICE OF THE FIRST FAMILY?

SO THERE'S GOING TO BE AN OFFICE THERE FOR THE FAMILY MEMBERS?

>> LIKE FIRST LADY.

>> LIKE THE FIRST LADY?

>> PLUS THE DAUGHTER.

>> TO ME THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE JUT ANY ON THE POLITICAL FAMILIES THEN.

IF THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

IT PROBABLY WILL -- BEFORE WE ELECT THEM AS PRESIDENT OR MADAM PRESIDENT.

>> I WANT TO TAKE A DEEP DIVE FOR A SECOND IF WE COULD DIG DEEPER OURSELVES IF WE HAD THE STAFF TO I WOULD LIKE TO.

BUT I WOULD LIKE DeVOS NOMINATION IS HELD UP A LITTLE BIT, SHE WAS BIG HUGE IN MICHIGAN IN TERMS OF SETTING UPTAKING PUBLIC MONEY PUBLIC SCHOOL MONEY AND DIVERTING IT TO CHARTER SCHOOLS.

MANY OR MOST OF WHICH WERE CHRISTIAN AND PRIVATE CHRISTIAN ACADEMIES.

DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THEIR GRADUATION RATES WERE?

HOW MANY OF THE GIRLS GRADUATED FROM THE SCHOOLS?

AND GOT PREGNANT BECAUSE THERE WAS AN SENTENCE NENS ONLY EDUCATION?

AND WHAT THE FEMALE GOING TO COLLEGE RATE WAS?

HOW THEY DID ON THE SAT SCORES?

>> I THINK THOSE ARE WONDERFUL QUESTIONS.

I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWERS HERE.

BUT I KNOW I HAVE READ OF STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE THAT SHOWED THE SUCCESS RATE WAS VERY HIGH.

AND THE KIDS DID VERY WELL.

>> THE PEOPLE WENT TO YALE AND HARVARD?

>> BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN IT BROKEN OUT BY GENDER THAT WOULD BE AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO THAT.

I WILL TRY TO GET YOU THE INFORMATION.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> SURE.

I WILL TAKE THIS.

I THINK THERE HAS BEEN DATA NOT SPECIFIC TO GENDER BUT DATA SUPPORTS THE IDEA OF SCHOOL CHOICE AND BETTER OUT COMES FOR STUDENTS.

I'M STRAIGHTING OUT THE FACT THAT IN SOME CASES, THAT BETSEY'S DeVOS' APPROACH IN TERMS OF RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE.

BUT OVERALL SCHOOL CHOICE IS A BENEFIT TO YOUNG PEOPLE.

>> THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION OF TO THE CONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR DISTHINK TO THE CONTRARY SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[♪♪]N. FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

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