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>> Well, it turns out that a former St.

Louisan is a Time magazine person of the year for 2025.

We'll talk about that.

But first, let's meet the panelists.

Starting with Wendy Wiese, the media veteran, along with Bill McClellan from the Post Dispatch, Sarah Fenske from the 314 podcast, the Daily Newsletter, and St.

Louis magazine.

And from the St.

Louis American, there he is, Elvin Reid.

Hey, big thanks to Sandy Haynes who provided the artwork behind the mantle or on top of the mantle behind our set today.

Looks great.

Thank you, Sandy.

And if you'd like more information or to learn more about Sandy's work, go to sandyhanyesfineart.com.

Uh, let's see.

Alvin, we're going to start with you.

Sam Alman, who grew up in Clayton, went to the Captain School, and then John Burroughs, turns out to be the first St.

Louis by my count since Charles Lindberg in 1927 to be a Time magazine person of the year.

Time magazine announced today that the AI architects that include Elon Musk and Sam Alton, the um founder of Open AI, he's now the CEO there.

They're the ones who for better or worse are changing the world more than anybody else.

I think actually they're right.

I'm a little afraid about this, but I think that those guys who are bringing AI to our culture are indeed changing the planet.

>> Well, are they changing it for good or for bad?

I guess that question is to be answered.

Um, nothing against Sam Alton or Altman or the other individuals, but that was just kind of like, oh, that's that's nice.

I think there are a lot more important things and a lot more important people that should be on the cover of Time magazine for the person of the year.

So, I mean, if you want to go in that direction, I mean, that's great.

But that was kind of a all right, cool.

I think we're still kind of figuring out exactly what it is and what it does.

Uh there was a story in St.

Louis magazine about the application at Mercy Hospital and the fact that it is going to it's they're in a test like a pilot program and uh with Microsoft and [laughter] good quiz.

Yeah.

But uh but that kind of that kind of thing I think is very promising.

the medical side of it, the technological side of it, all of the other applications kind of scare me when it comes to replacing human beings, replacing uh the written word.

That that scares me.

But I do think it's important enough now to have recognized him because he's been recognized in every other area.

>> I think this thing that they're doing at Mercy is kind of great.

like it's actually freeing nurses up to have more time to talk to patients because it's just sort of like taking notes in a way that automatically inputs them into the charts.

And I think like if AI can be used in a way that is like supplementing humans and taking away some of the grunt work, I think that's a good thing.

I think right now we're seeing this outsized hype.

And I I'm enough of an optimist to be a skeptic on [laughter] AI where I feel like it can't replace the fundamental and important things that people do.

Whether that's teaching a small child, whether that's actually being the nurse that has to be there to help someone, whether it's writing a sentence that is actually interesting and informative, I'm not seeing AI being able to do any of those important jobs at this point.

And what I'm seeing is they're having a massive impact on the economy.

I think it's a bubble that's going to burst.

I think these guys are are looking good right now, but man, especially Sam Alman's company, that's just like a house of mirrors.

>> I I think so many people are using it.

I think it is here.

I think people like it.

I think it's going to replace some jobs, Sarah, like a legal clerk or somebody who whose job is to do research.

>> Well, it's already replacing people in my field, you know, low level newspaper report.

>> And what concerns me is that this whole crowd out of Silicon Valley, they love to disrupt.

They That's their thing.

They'll break things now, apologize later, and they don't care that much who gets hurt.

That that bothers me.

And also the rush to put up data centers just because AI is so important, you know, to hell with the environment and what other whatever other consequences we're going to have.

Let's go forward with it.

I just hope we all slow down.

Well, I I hope Elvin's right and it's not as big a deal as everybody's making it, but to me it's just out of science fiction and the idea that these machines are going to be smarter than people and I mean it just doesn't sound like it ends well as far as I >> I I agree with you.

I real quick my my genius daughter about to get her masters in electrical engineering.

I said like so with uh you know AI and 3D printer you could just make me an airplane and she said like yeah probably could.

Yes.

You know what she said?

She said, "Yeah, I probably could.

Might crash, but I could do it."

So, I think that's along what you're saying like, "Yeah, okay.

Yeah, this is all good and dandy."

But, and for one that also was, we were all, I guess, alive at the time of the do thing, but I was really like a business editor and all that about that time.

And, you know, like you could turn, you know, 50 Cent into $50,000.

And one day, everybody went broke.

And I kind of feel the same thing.

This is what is this exactly and how are you investing in it that there will always be return on your investment.

>> Well, and and if if it does take over doing all most of the work and we have need a universal income, you know, who gets the big houses and who gets the little houses?

I it just like I say, I just don't see a lot of positive things here.

and and we were all we were all the recipients of the laresses of people like Gussie Bush, you know, a a a guy who built a brewery, who, you know, invested in a ball team that we've all enjoyed until this year um for for generations.

And I think you're I think you're right about this disrupting next wave of entrepreneurs.

I I don't think they care.

They're they are going to break it down.

No, I hope you're wrong.

I just kind of all right for our great leaders of that time.

I mean I grew up in a different time in a different place.

So yeah, they were helping everybody while meanwhile I couldn't go into Chase Park Plaza and there was a lot of things I couldn't do while all these.

So let's not be as down on younger people because I think whatever they might be disrupting I don't think they are basically >> how could we say anti- certain people.

>> Point well made.

I want to go on to you uh Sarah Fensky about uh a Wville state representative who's a Republican.

Her name is Trisha Burns and uh she has just promised that she's going to file legislation in Jeff City in January that would require cursive training for all students in the state of Missouri.

Currently, that's not a requirement, but it is in places like Massachusetts and California.

But she also wants to dial back the use of technology.

And I think the bill says that no homework will be able to be assigned to children if it requires technology.

So like you couldn't do your homework on a computer if you had one that I don't get that.

>> Yeah.

You know, I uh I like some of the things in this bill.

I certainly am not going to defend every facet of this.

I think there's some things where she goes way too far, but I like the idea of finding ways to get kids off screen and get them engaged with the page.

Again, cursive, it turns out, is a great thing for for young minds.

The years that they did away with it, people weren't making the sort of neural connections they used to make just because of apparently the act of like your pencil flowing from letter to letter is really critical in terms of development.

I think, you know, there's an argument to be made that our state legislature shouldn't be setting educational policy to this level of detail.

And I'm going to say I like what they did last year.

you know, they pushed this statewide smartphone ban in schools.

There were a lot of school boards that kind of sensed that something was wrong with how phones were proliferating.

And I don't know that they had the the courage or the political ability to stand up to parents who really wanted these.

The state legislature did it.

I think it was the right move and it's borne a lot of good results.

So, I'm kind of like, huh, maybe they should bring on the cursive and limit the screen time.

>> Look at you.

A landline and now cursive.

I am a letter.

You are a boomer in the making.

[laughter] >> No, it's true.

But I >> I think it should be up to the school boards ultimately because the school boards are closer to the students and the teachers and I don't think this general assembly really has the expertise to deal with educational matters.

>> I think Charlie, you're sort of you're speaking as a clatonian.

Like there are some good school boards in this metro area that know what they're doing and I would 100% trust them more than our state lawmakers.

There's some that I get the sense they have no idea what they're doing.

Well, I go ahead.

>> I I I was going to say I like to think that I'm second to nobody when it comes to clinging to the past, [laughter] but the the idea that we're not going to let kids do homework if it's computer generated or working on computers, that doesn't sound like a formula for getting ahead in in the world today anymore.

I think the kids have to be encouraged to work with computers.

I agree and I think that was nothing good from the came from the pandemic, but I think we did learn that you can you can have class and you can learn even if you're not physically like in the school.

>> I don't think so.

>> Well, I mean, Charlie, >> our scores went way down.

>> I understand that.

We haven't recovered yet.

>> Never mind.

Never mind.

[laughter] Never mind.

>> No, I mean we found out studying by computer was a complete fail.

>> Everybody flunked out.

Nobody graduated.

Well, well, right now in the state of Missouri, >> I'm amazed my daughters have their degrees.

I'm like I' I've >> Right now, 27% of the kids in Missouri read at proficient levels and it's 25% who do math.

>> Okay.

The point I was trying to make was there was no school to go to and there was a way to have class and that was digitally.

Okay.

So, I guess it would have been better to just for them to just sit at home for >> you know I think if kids are like your daughter's age or were in college when that happened.

Yeah.

College kids can learn great online.

I had a six-year-old, I guess she was during the pandemic.

It was a disaster.

I mean, kids that age can't learn from Zoom.

And that's I think a lot of what we're seeing reflected in in the scores Charlie's talking about for younger kids.

It really was a >> Well, it certainly is a self-discipline thing, too.

I mean, the the little kids, it's hard for them to concentrate when they have a teacher.

And I know uh my own grandkids as uh greatly as smart as they are.

[laughter] It it was hard for Tino to sit at home and try to, you know, pay attention.

>> Yeah.

>> Wendy, I want to ask you about JB Pritsker, governor of Illinois, who signed a bill this week that Republicans have already said that they're going to challenge in court and it won't go anywhere.

But um I I like his intentions.

He said that uh no one can be arrested within 100 or 1,000 ft of a courthouse at least for immigration arrests.

And he also said that uh Illinoans would have uh greater power when it comes to suing the federal government if ICE officers or other federal officials arrest people no and knowingly violate their civil rights.

I don't think a governor can say where the feds can arrest people.

Even though I'm with them that uh I wish the feds would back off on the arrest of immigrants who are here illegally.

>> Um a couple of weeks ago, I think the New York Times had a story that indicated that actual that actual immigrants um are not in favor of of mass deportations, you know, the the kind that we're we're seeing.

They are fine with strengthening the borders but they are not okay with mass deportations.

There was a um economist yuggov poll that said that uh it is a lowinterest topic for most voters even though President Trump is really doubling down on this.

He is in Chicago where you know this is a it's ICE is obviously a very big story.

The question I think you're asking is, is this enough to hurt him?

Uh, or will it help him?

I I guess it really kind of depends on on where you live.

Um, but I I think that lowinterest topic for voters, that tells me something right there.

>> Well, if I'm going to if I'm going to you run for president, let's say maybe uh this time next year, my first kind of bully pull pit is my own state, right?

So, I'm going to make these bold, you know, statements in a place where maybe I could do it, maybe I can't, but I'm the governor, pretty popular governor.

And so, it's my, you know, testing ground, my lab area.

And like you all said, the way that the kind of winds are blowing right now, I think you don't have to be really far far left to progressive, but at the same time, I think that he's I think he knows what he's talking about as far as his political career.

[clears throat] Oh, yeah.

I think people who vote in a Democratic primary, and there will be a crowded Democratic primary.

Democrats can never figure out how to like get in line.

You know, this is going to be good.

And I I think it is good.

I think it's it's terrible to see people showing up for their immigration appointments, trying to do the right thing, about to meet the judge, and they're getting hauled away.

As an American, it's just disgusting to see this happening.

And I think I I understand the polls you're talking about.

You're probably correct about all that.

But to me, it just feels like it just it gets at the heart of who we are at this country as a country.

I find it so offensive.

Yeah.

And I have to think there's going to be a big group of voters who would be energized to say this is not who we want to be.

Thank god someone tried to stand up to stop this.

>> Well, and this is not a candidate that has to use, you know, Groupon.

I mean, this is [laughter] this is a guy that's got really deep pockets.

And so, chances are he's got some people doing some very intensive research.

Well, I will say I'm very pro-immigrant.

Uh, even those who are not here and having crossed the tees and dotted the eyes.

So, but I feel like I'm in the minority in this country and I don't know if a guy who is on the side of people who are here illegally is going to be elected the next president.

Not at this time.

I I don't see because because even in St.

Louis, you hear some but not a lot of concern about the immigrants in our midst.

Well, that's why, you know, like I say, nobody's really concerned except, you know, those that are really, you know, either way on it, okay?

But everybody in the middle.

So, that's why I say I don't think it really hurt him that much.

And I I just think that I think what you were saying says that look, okay, you're putting yourself in a situation to run for the Democratic nomination for president.

I need to be here to to win that nomination.

It doesn't matter what the general of the country and all that because oh and by the way based on who's the president now um I think you can't rule out and say like oh you can't say this or you can't do that.

I think most people not most people enough people are ready for a change that whatever that change is they can live with.

>> Me too.

I I think I think it helps him.

I think that people go, "Well, we want decency for a while."

And you know what they're doing at courouses, grabbing people and getting chasing people into daycare centers?

There's just something very questionable about all that.

>> Bill, let me ask you about St.

Louis public schools.

Uh but before I do, you want to make a correction to last week's program?

>> I do.

Last week's program we were talking about the snow and I said that well Jane Burn in Chicago when she was mayor was blamed for the snow and Carol Palumbo sent me a note reminding me that I was completely wrong.

Carol Bandic was the mayor and blamed for the snow and Jane Burn actually used the snow to get elected.

So thanks the thoughtful viewer Carol Palumbo.

>> So Jane Burn was kind of in the Carara Spencer role right more.

more or less.

I I I don't want to pretend to be an authority.

I'm [laughter] snowing Chicago.

>> Well, apparently you aren't an authority.

>> Well, I am.

>> Uh, hey, I want to ask you about the St.

Louis public schools.

Uh, the schools have decided not to conduct a national search for the next superintendent.

You for a long time have always been in favor, generally speaking, of hiring from within.

You still stand that way?

>> Yeah.

Yes, I do.

I think it makes and and I think the school board has been singed.

I mean, they hired Dr.

Stewart after a national search and then uh before that last board left and sort of here's to you the voters who are throwing us out, they put Millisent Burade in who was part of that national search thing.

And I think the boards decide, you know, maybe it makes some sense to save the money on the national search.

and we were a big organization and see if there's anybody in the organization who could do the job and I always think it's good if you hire from within and somebody knows the groundwork.

So I I applaud what the board's doing.

>> I I think that you have to still do the national search because there just might be a candidate.

I I still think that there are younger people.

They don't have to be 60 years old and 65 years old when they come into this position.

Um, and so you just check.

It doesn't mean you have to hire them, but I think you should look everywhere.

You should look at anybody who would be interested in trying to come here and turn around SLPS.

So I I I think it's a mistake to not look everywhere.

>> Well, I think you could get a younger you could look at younger people here, too.

That's a good point, >> but you don't like you you don't feel that we should just stay with the interim superintendent who had the background in HR.

>> I I do not.

I I I do not.

If I had my brothers, it would be somebody, even if they were local, that quite frankly had nothing to do with SLPS.

>> Now, hang on a second because uh technically speaking, Milison Borchade was hired from within.

>> Oh, well, technically speaking, [laughter] Charlie, she was the first hire of Dr.

Stewart >> and and she so she was not really from within.

She, matter of fact, when they booted her out, she still had her uh state of Washington license plates on her Mercedes Benz that she got with the money.

>> But when they replace Millison Borisade, they did not conduct a national search.

>> Well, and I think that's what they're talking about now.

They were preparing to hire a firm to do one and they're saying, "Hey, wait a [clears throat] minute.

This is going so well with this interim.

Why do we want to pay a national firm $150,000 when they're just going to end up recommending this person we already have?

I get where they're coming from on this.

I'm always the one saying, "No, no, we need to bring it out oftowners like myself, you know, get fresh ideas in here."

I think in this case, if you have somebody who's really wowing you in an interim role, you got to pay attention to that role, but she's wowing people.

She's wowing people and that's hard to do in the SLPS, >> but she hasn't been through an entire school year yet, >> right?

So, give it some more months.

That's that's an eternity in the >> SLP.

[laughter] Uh case of Scarlet was found to be whatever.

But the first year on the job, actually, no one you couldn't you didn't realize all this money thing was going on, all that.

But there was no one that said like, "She's doing a terrible job as superintendent."

>> Well, that came out pretty darn >> Well, I I understand that.

And I'm not even defending her or Borchain in the least.

I'm just saying you cannot decide that the the young lady that is the the interim right now would be great at this job because she's wowing people after three or four months.

>> Well, I they're not saying let's offer her a permanent contract.

They're saying, "Hey, maybe we could hold off on spending six figures to go do a search.

Let's let this play out a little bit."

I to me this makes a lot.

>> Let the dust settle a little bit more for negative hay bobs of never whatever thing.

Okay.

All right.

Whatever's bowing.

>> All right.

I I >> we we it hasn't worked with people coming from someplace else and it hasn't worked with people here.

>> Nothing works.

>> Nothing work.

I don't want to be like that.

But I think you do I think you should cast your net upon the wise.

>> Boy, how many superintendents have we seen the last 30 years?

>> Quite a few.

I mean, we've tried everything.

We even had uh Alvaris and >> Marcel.

Now that I quite frankly I think that that was a turning point in that has led to failure over the last couple of decades because that was where the whole thing I think went completely off the ch >> and I and I supported them you know in the beginning I thought hey this makes some sense.

So >> and that was the firm.

Yeah.

>> I mean so yeah the >> that was a former Macy's executive.

Trey Brooks brothers brothers brother he lived in Right.

He was he was in touch with the community.

He lived in Chase Park.

>> Well, speaking of hiring and firing, uh Chief Tracy of uh St.

Louis Police Department, Bill has been hired for another three years at $183,000 a year.

I think he's doing a pretty good job.

I'm glad he was rehired.

I just think that the uh salary is too low for a person in that position.

And apparently he does too because he wants to moonlight on the side in addition to his regular full-time job.

He wants to have the ability to work somewhere else part-time and apparently he's got that in his contract.

>> Well, I think that's absolutely crazy.

F and first of all, if if he can't make it in St.

Louis on 185,000 a year, I think he should be a free agent and see what he can get elsewhere.

You know, the teachers and cops have always been underpaid.

And instead of raising them up so much, we raise up the cops and the teachers a little bit and pay the administrators obscene salaries, crazy salaries.

And uh if if Mr.

Trace, if Chief Tracy doesn't think he can make it on 185, like I say, go elsewhere.

Who is he going to work for?

Is it going to be that uh supplement company where the founder uh has dark fantasies about police women?

Or is it going to be the uh illegal gaming device people who are already putting money to guns and hoses?

If you're the police chief, that's your full-time job, and you shouldn't be working part-time for somebody else.

I think it's nuts.

>> We had enough questions about the the members of the police board and and where their allegiances lie.

I mean, this is this really does kind of put I think it's a it's a chilling development.

Um, when you think of what what he might be getting.

>> Oh, come on.

I mean, I think you're being unfair, Bill, by saying he's going to work for pure forma or for gambling.

Maybe he's going to work for the Matthews Dicky Boys Club.

We don't know.

>> Maybe he's going to be a consultant on churches school safety for a national farm.

>> How much was the neighborhood?

He was getting an additional what?

>> 100,000.

Do you really think he's going to be working for Matthew Dicki?

Come on, Charlie.

>> I do think he got screwed by this.

Like they brought him here saying, "We've got this like salary package.

The city's going to pick up a big part of this and then the the foundation is going to pick up this other part of it."

And the foundation apparently because the police union was like, "No, we don't want this guy to get this money.

He's been too hard on us."

You know, they end up saying, "Oh no, our part of the deal is off the table."

that puts him in a bad place when he came here to do stuff that he doesn't feel that is yet done.

He would like to stay here.

>> I I I think when he came here, the the deal with the city, you know, Hayden was making what, like 165 or something, and that's what we pay a chief.

And I thought the police foundation was kind of bidding against ourselves.

I mean, we had the national search then.

One of the three candidates wouldn't even come here for the interview.

He just wanted to use it for a raise.

the other resigned suddenly and wouldn't say why.

And then and uh Chief Tracy from Wilmington, they voted [clears throat] in no confidence on him and he said he couldn't he couldn't go back there.

So it wasn't like we were bidding, you know, we got to pay this guy 250.

>> Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's staying.

I agree with Charlie.

I don't think $180,000 is enough.

Um but I am concerned about what moonlighting looks like.

I just I I think the man is doing a good job in a tough situation and he's handled this whole state takeover thing well.

And if he wants to be the chief of police in St.

Louis and he wants to try to find a little bit more money, either we find the money for him or we let him find the money for himself.

I think he's doing a good job.

I think it would be sad to lose him because I'm sorry, I don't trust nothing coming out of this.

You should be moonlighting for somebody.

I mean, if he wants to have like a consulting job or something like that, I don't think he's going to be going down to New Orleans and walking a beat on the weekends.

>> Well, this is St.

Louis.

[laughter] >> You never know.

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