[music playing] PRESENTER: The following program is a production of Ozarks Public Television.

JENNIFER MOORE: Good evening and welcome to Sense of Community.

I'm Jennifer Moore.

The term diversity has become a buzzword.

But what does it really mean in terms of the Ozarks?

How are we doing in becoming a more diverse community that's more inclusive?

Join us as we ask those questions and more to Dr. Marlin Barber with the Missouri State University Office of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.

We hope you'll join us for this important conversation.

ANNOUNCER: Welcome to Sense of Community.

Sense of Community is a public affairs presentation of Ozarks Public Television.

JENNIFER MOORE: Dr. Barber, thank you so much for joining us.

MARLIN BARBER: Thank you for having me.

JENNIFER MOORE: We're really glad to have you here.

So we're talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion and how that applies to our community here in the Ozarks.

And I'm wondering if you could just kick us off by defining what we mean when we say diversity in terms of the campus or the community we live in becoming more diverse.

MARLIN BARBER: Yes.

Actually, when it comes to diversity and defining it, first, I would say that Springfield and the Ozarks is really already diverse.

And there's economic diversity, which I think a lot of people will think about in terms of the economic incomes that individuals have and where they kind of lie within that parameter.

But oftentimes, people do think about diversity in terms of race, ethnicity, or nationality or gender or sexual orientation.

And diversity does include all of those categories.

But it's even broader than that.

It oftentimes means diversity of ideas, diversity of demographics, geography from where people hail.

People might be from rural areas.

And they might experience the world differently or see the world differently.

Individuals from suburban areas will have different experiences, urban areas will have different experiences.

And sometimes, those categories cross or they intersect.

And so you will have individuals from a different ethnicity that might be from a rural area.

And so diversity is quite complex.

The age fits into that category.

Children fall into that category.

So whenever we talk about diversity, it's a really broad capturing.

So it's not stagnant.

And it's not just limited to race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation, how a person identifies.

It encompasses all of that.

And the fact that it overlaps or that those categories overlap, that's really-- whenever we're talking about diversity in Springfield or diversity at Missouri State University, we're wanting to look at those things and how Springfield represents the wider population in America and the wider global population as those groups of people kind of intersect and interact with each other and kind of how-- whenever they intersect, how individuals relate to one another how they work together, how they collaborate and mix.

JENNIFER MOORE: And it sounds like diversity by that definition really comes down to the diversity of lived experiences, diversity of perspectives.

I love how you connected that to the diversity of ideas.

Because here in the United States and the free world, we've long championed the idea the marketplace of free thought and ideas.

And so the goal is to make more diverse communities so that we can all thrive through those experiences.

We also hear in the phrases Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, DEI, we hear about equity.

How is equity different from diversity in what communities are trying to achieve?

MARLIN BARBER: Yes.

So when it comes to equity, I think people think of equal.

And they think of, oftentimes, treating people the same or treating people equal.

Well, as a historian, I would argue that we really don't.

And we've really never treated people equal.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

And what I mean by that-- and I often use my children as examples, I have two boys-- one's 15 and one's 10.

But I do not treat them equal.

I do not treat them equal as I would treat my parents.

I would treat them fairly.

And so I would treat my 15-year-old different than I do my 10-year-old.

And another example would be so if you had 20 people, and those 20 people wanted or needed shoes, I wouldn't give them all the exact same pair of shoes.

Because if I did, then that would be treating them equal.

Equity would be going to those individuals and asking them what type of shoe do you need?

Is it going to be a shoe that is going to be a more of a dress shoe?

What size of shoe do you need?

So equity is meeting people more so where they are and meeting their needs versus just giving everybody and treating everybody the same.

And so I think that gets lost or misinterpreted whenever we talk about the equity part of diversity, equity.

And the assumption is that, well, we just treat everybody the same.

And oftentimes, that's not the case.

It's also like saying you don't see color or individuals say that, well, I don't see color.

Well, why not?

Because whenever you see color, then you're able to recognize those lived experiences or at least acknowledge those lived experiences that individuals have.

And it's more about treating them fairly as opposed to, well, I'm just going to treat everybody the same.

JENNIFER MOORE: Yeah.

And then lastly, what about the term inclusion-- again same as the other two definitions we've just gone through in the context of becoming a more inclusive community and campus.

MARLIN BARBER: Inclusion really involves having an awareness of your own identity and who you are as well as those around you.

And so inclusion involves having what we use in our office at the Division of Diversity, Equity inclusion is having a cultural competency having an awareness, a conscious attempt or a conscious awareness of your own identity, who you are, what groups you are a part of, but also those that are around us-- what groups are they a part of and not excluding those individuals based on those their lived experiences or the groups that they might be a part of.

And so they bring their experiences and the way that they see the world, other individuals that are not a part of our group, they bring a richness to any conversation, whether it's a classroom setting, whether it's a meeting, or whether you're working for a law firm or any setting.

Individuals will bring a richness to that.

And sometimes because of the groups that they belong to, there may be some hesitancy to actually advocate for themselves.

Because they might have had experiences in the past that have shut that down.

And they don't feel comfortable doing that.

And so inclusion really entails breaking down those barriers so that individuals do feel or think that they have a place, if you will, at the proverbial table.

JENNIFER MOORE: Yeah.

I would love to hear about the DEI efforts at Missouri State University.

I know you're very involved with those.

MARLIN BARBER: Well, I am trying.

And I am I'm new to those roles.

However, Missouri State has a multi-pronged approach as it relates to diversity, equity, and inclusion.

And most people will think of it as a top-down from President Smart and the administration down.

But it's also from the middle out.

So you have the deans of the different colleges that are establishing diversity councils.

There are individual faculty members that serve and head up these diversity councils.

You have individuals that our faculty, students, and staff that are involved in service at the university that relates to diverse students diverse populations at the campus.

I mentioned to President Smart.

I mean, the university's mission is right in line-- the public affairs mission is right in line with diversity, with the three pillars, one of which being community engagement and having a cultural competency, which is a part of inclusion.

And so you have a multi-pronged approach as it relates to diversity, equity, and inclusion at Missouri State.

There is what is happening with leadership.

But also you have individual populations within the campus population that have an impact and that are pushing, if you will, for greater inclusion, greater diversity, greater retention of students from diverse population or retention of diverse faculty, diverse staff in addition to recruiting those individuals.

JENNIFER MOORE: Connect the dots for us, if you would, on how having a more diverse and inclusive campus community here at Missouri State impacts the Ozarks region more broadly.

MARLIN BARBER: Yes.

So having that population, those individuals will come here that are from various backgrounds and bringing the richness of the knowledge that they have, their educational backgrounds, but also their families that they will bring here and that they live in these communities.

Individuals from diverse backgrounds, they live here.

They are residents of Springfield and the Ozarks.

And they may not be natives.

But they're here.

And they wish to be a part of this community.

And so there's an economic impact.

Some of these individuals that are coming to the university and bringing family with them, their families may start businesses or work at firms or businesses here in Springfield.

Their children will attend schools here.

And that adds to the diversity.

And ideally, we would want those individuals to feel as though they are a part and they are contributing to the richness of the Ozarks and Springfield and Missouri State.

JENNIFER MOORE: Yeah.

You've lived in the Ozarks for many years.

I'm wondering if you can pinpoint some unique challenges that we as a region face in our attempts to become a more inclusive region.

MARLIN BARBER: Yes.

So my family and I have lived here since about 2012.

And the challenges have really been that when my family-- when we moved here, one of the challenges was that we weren't really sure how we would be received.

And that led to some hesitancy to really kind of get out.

Because my family is a blended family, if you will, a mixed race family.

And so we weren't quite sure how that would work out here in Springfield.

We also we like to get outside.

We like to hike.

We like to get to streams.

And so one of the things we had to do was just really ask around to the local community.

And really it was the university community-- where would the best schools be for our children to fit in?

And where could we get outside and do some of those things and enjoy the things?

So I think some of the struggles, if you will, might be that when people come here, they're not really sure how welcomed they will be, if there will be some hesitancy.

Unfortunately, this particular region of Missouri has somewhat of a reputation for being pretty homogeneous when it comes to things such as race or faith.

And individuals might be hesitant to come here for that.

Because there may be this feeling of, well, I need to conform.

I can't really be my true self.

Or my family, we can't really be who we are because we won't necessarily be accepted.

What we have found is that while that does exist, it's not as blatant or as overwhelming as we thought.

Now, that does not mean that other individuals have not had really, really negative experiences, which I have been made aware of, whether they were students or families that were moving here for work.

But I think that those might be some of the challenges.

JENNIFER MOORE: Yeah.

I'm so glad you mentioned that.

The region, the Ozarks region is a very, by and large, homogeneous region on paper in terms of race.

It's by and large, the vast majority of people living here are Caucasian or white.

And then we have a very high percentage of evangelical or at least Christian background.

And it's heartbreaking to me to hear that is still the experience or concern even.

And, I think, that really speaks to the point of the goals behind DEI.

We want to be a community where everybody feels at the very, very basic level, safe and at peace and have the opportunity to thrive.

And look what our-- look what our community benefited already from having you here in the university and the community.

So thank you for sharing that.

MARLIN BARBER: And I think it also, If I may-- JENNIFER MOORE: Yes.

MARLIN BARBER: --I think that there's an economic component that is often or sometimes overlooked.

You have what in some individuals are termed brain drain.

So when individuals move here and they don't necessarily feel welcomed or they have these really negative experiences and really bright individuals, well, they don't want to stay here.

And so they leave.

Or children that are growing up here will say, you know what?

This is not for me.

A number of children that are bright scholars in high school, the first thing they want to do instead of looking at Missouri State as an option, they want to leave.

And so you have those consequences as to this-- whether it's perceived or imagined or real, this exclusive mentality or mindset of this particular region.

And it's a shame.

Because we lose out on that talent and bringing that talent in terms of Missouri State.

JENNIFER MOORE: And I'm so glad that we're having this discussion.

Because that's part of the solution is to talk about it and to develop plans and progress to move forward.

And there is movement on the campus and in the community.

So we've talked about some of the challenges in terms of diversity and equity and becoming a more inclusive community.

What are some of the strengths of this community in terms of DEI?

MARLIN BARBER: Well, I think in terms of strengths as it relates to DEI is that you have resilience.

The people here that are here want to be here.

And they are resolute and trying to make this a more inclusive destination, not just-- I'm just passing through, biding my time to whatever is the next best offer or a place that I can go.

And so the people that are here and that are invested are truly invested.

And there's such a resolve by these individuals, whether it's working towards creating a more inclusive educational experience for children, serving on the school board, or educating individuals or giving lectures or giving talks, working with civic organizations, there's a lot of community engagement.

And I think that is one of the definite strengths.

The people are serious.

And they want to truly make this place a much richer place for everyone to make it a destination spot.

JENNIFER MOORE: Yeah.

So you are an historian.

And you specialize in early-- is it 18th century America?

MARLIN BARBER: Yeah.

18th and 19th century.

JENNIFER MOORE: 18th and 19th century.

And I'm sure you have heard people say, especially in the context of diversity, that the past is in the past.

Let's leave it there.

Let's go forward.

But I'm going to guess as a historian that you are a firm believer that the past is part of us.

And I was wondering if you might be able to share a little bit about Springfield and this area's early history.

There was a time when, racially at least, this area was more diverse than it is now, right?

MARLIN BARBER: Correct.

Correct.

The late 1800s, Springfield had-- it's a percentage of the population in terms of its Black population, African-American population was anywhere between 11% and 15% of the population of Springfield, which just that percentage comparing it to today, which is it's about 4% give or take, that's a huge difference.

Now, the city itself was not as large.

But that percentage was much larger, which also meant that you had a much larger Black community, which also meant that you had Black professionals.

So you had doctors here.

You had business owners, grocery store owners.

You had merchants.

You had a thriving Black community.

You had schools.

You had teachers.

You had administrators.

And so it was much more diverse in that sense.

Now, that doesn't necessarily account for other aspects of diversity.

But as it relates to its Black population, it was much more diverse.

And that really came as an outgrowth of the enslaved population that was here prior to the end of enslavement in 1865, the end of legal enslavement.

But those individuals stayed here.

And they had relatives here.

And so that's where that community came from.

But that was a richness that you had here in Springfield.

And individuals would run for city council and that were involved in civics here in Springfield.

So you had a much more of a really rich and thriving Black community here in Springfield.

And unfortunately, as a historian, what we know and one of the things that we study-- it's not to kind of relish or romanticize the past-- one of the things that we look at as historians is to look at how things changed.

How do they get to a certain point?

And how do they change?

And what does that change look like over time?

And that's really-- whenever we're looking at the past, that's one of the things that we're really looking at.

How did things come about?

How did they get to that point?

And then how did they change over time?

So as we are today, when we're looking at diversity, it's not about relishing in the past.

It's, well, how did things change?

And so if things changed at one point in time, then certainly they can change again.

JENNIFER MOORE: Right, right.

And working on the radio side of our sister station over at KSMU, I know our team has done a lot of recent reporting on the early history along the Springfield Greene County African-American Heritage Trail.

And I was just blown away by how the community, the African-American community from the late 1800s and early 1900s came alive.

It was vibrant.

It was just absolutely thriving leadership in those different spheres-- truly, truly amazing.

And I think we would be remiss if we didn't acknowledge that there was a horrific event in 1906 that was really a-- remains a dark spot on this city's history.

And that was the lynching of three Black men on the downtown square.

And I know that there was a mass exodus of African-Americans from Springfield.

We're still seeing that, right-- the remnants of that in terms of our numbers, right?

MARLIN BARBER: Yes.

And I think that's part of-- when I mentioned the reputation, a lot of that stems from that event-- that there was this exodus.

And the terminology is racial cleansing.

And that actually happened in quite a few towns in Missouri and across the United States as individuals from Southern states that were freed from enslavement began to migrate to other parts of the country.

So you do have these cleansing.

JENNIFER MOORE: So how does Springfield go forward and truly heal from that?

I know there have been efforts, big steps taken in terms of acknowledging it, putting a marker on the square by the city.

I think the History Museum has incorporated that into local history and local media has as well.

How does Springfield and MSU get the word out that it's really trying now to be a very inclusive and welcoming community for everybody?

MARLIN BARBER: Yeah.

Well, one thing I think that Springfield and MSU would really want to think about doing and looking at is going into those communities and going into those populations and sitting down and asking them, what exactly do you need?

And how do you want this to take place?

If it's about reconciliation, go and ask those individuals.

Some of those families that were around in the early 20th century, some of those Black families, they're still here.

The same is true of the Indigenous population.

Those communities are still here.

People are still here.

And so go into those communities, go to those individuals and ask, what do you need?

Because some of them, when you're talking about a marker, that's fine.

But there's more to it.

There's more to it.

They need more.

They would like more.

And it's not always about money.

Sometimes, it's about an acknowledgment.

Sometimes, it's about a deeper reconciliation.

So I think that as far as starting the Springfield and MSU really, really would want to-- sorry, we're going to have to take our jackets off.

And we are going to really have to have deep conversations.

And some of those conversations are going to be painful.

Some, they're going to hurt.

Because people are carrying this baggage with them.

And that gets passed on from generation to generation.

And I get it.

You don't want to live in the past.

You don't want to keep hashing those things up.

But a big first step is going and having those tough conversations with those individuals.

And I believe that is what Missouri State has been doing.

That is some of the work that we are doing in the Office of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.

We are having these difficult conversations.

We're having those difficult conversations out in the community, with community organizations and community groups.

And we're having these difficult conversations here on campus.

And so I think that that will go a long way in kind of moving the needle.

There's not going to be one quick fix.

And I know everybody wants to just, let's just make this quick.

Let's just make this happen and be done with it and move on with our lives.

But we're talking about centuries of practices that were written into systems that were carried into aspects of our society that people carry with them culturally.

And a lot of that takes time.

It takes a lot of time and generations to really undo.

So it's not going to be a quick fix.

JENNIFER MOORE: Yeah.

Those themes of forgiveness, reconciliation, trust, rebuilding-- those aren't slow fixes.

And it's a relationship between leadership and people they serve.

Well, this is fascinating.

Unfortunately, we're out of time.

So I'm going to have to wrap it up there.

But, Dr. Marlin Barber, thank you so much for talking to us.

MARLIN BARBER: My pleasure, absolutely.

Thank you.

JENNIFER MOORE: And we are going to leave you with some websites and phone numbers where you can go for more information on this.

We really appreciate you watching tonight.

I'm Jennifer Moore.

Thank you.

ANNOUNCER: Here is where you can find more information about the topics covered in this program.

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