- We have a tendency to forget, you know, authoritarianism in Germany didn't last, authoritarianism in the Soviet Union didn't last.

So at the end of the day, democracy is messy, but it wins.

(gentle music) - Hello, and welcome to "GZERO World."

I'm Ian Bremmer, coming to you from Davos, Switzerland, where world leaders, business executives and diplomats, and sometimes they're all the same person, gathered for the Annual World Economic Forum.

And let me tell you, the vibes here have been a lot colder and pretty nice weather.

With a fragile ceasefire holding in Gaza, a post-Assad Syria, and a stronger-than-ever NATO, you'd think there's a lot of reasons for optimism.

But aside from the US economy, certainly no one's talking about Europe's big, bright future.

And that's because just days ago, US President Trump was sworn in for a second term, and if he hadn't made his position on Europe clear before then, he certainly did so during his virtual address to the forum.

- From the standpoint of America, the EU treats us very, very unfairly, very badly.

Nobody's happy with it, and we're going to do something about it.

- The message was clear: "Europe, there is a new sheriff in town "and things are gonna change."

Joining me to talk about how Europe will adapt to Trump 2.0 is Finland's President Alexander Stubb.

And later, "GZERO"'s Tony Maciulis talks with trailblazer Diane von Furstenberg about the politics of global fashion.

Don't worry, I've also got your "Puppet Regime."

- Europe will now be known as "America Plaza East."

- But first, a word from the folks who help us keep the lights on.

- [Narrator 1] Funding for "GZERO World" is provided by our lead sponsor, Prologis.

- [Narrator 2] Every day all over the world, Prologis helps businesses of all sizes lower their carbon footprint and scale their supply chains with a portfolio of logistics and real estate and an end-to-end solutions platform addressing the critical initiatives of global logistics today.

Learn more at prologis.com - [Narrator 1] And by... Cox Enterprises is proud to support "GZERO."

Cox is working to create an impact in areas like sustainable agriculture, clean tech, healthcare, and more.

Cox, A Family of Businesses.

Additional funding provided by Jerre and Mary Joy Stead, Carnegie Corporation of New York, and... (upbeat music) (dramatic music) - In Davos this week, the most anticipated event was a virtual address from President Trump.

I've got your CliffNotes version: "Europe has treated the US very badly, very, very badly, "and that's going to change."

No surprises there, but truth be told, I was struck a little more by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's speech to the forum two days prior.

- Right now, all eyes are on Washington.

But who's actually watching Europe at the moment?

Will President Trump even notice Europe?

Does he see NATO as necessary, and will he respect EU institutions?

Ladies and gentlemen, Europe can't afford to be second or third in line for its allies.

- Quick aside: Zelensky's English has gotten pretty workable, hasn't it?

Keep that in mind the next time you claim not to have enough time for Duolingo.

But back to the speech.

His stinging critique of Europe's security dependence on the United States is one I heard repeated by European leaders across the continent in recent days: "Europe, we must admit, is on its own."

And if you think that's a bit dramatic, consider this: President Trump didn't mention the word Europe, or Ukraine for that matter, once in his inaugural address.

That was not an oversight.

So it is time, European leaders are now saying, for the continent to pull itself up by its own lederhosen.

It's little surprise, then, that a kind of cold pragmatism has taken hold here in Europe.

French President Emmanuel Macron told his European counterparts this week, it's time to "wake up."

Europe must spend more on the continent's defense and reduce its reliance on the United States for security guarantees.

That's what Macron said.

NATO's new Secretary General Mark Rutte went so far as to say that "Trump was right," that European defense spending needs to go up and go up a lot.

As for European Commission President Ursula Von Der Leyen, she recently made it clear that Europe has plenty of other trading partners outside of the United States.

So that's the talk.

Now we'll watch the walk.

Will European nations increase defense spending remotely close to 5% of GDP, as Trump has urged them to do?

Will they invest in a tech sector to rival the behemoth that is Silicon Valley?

Or will they look for comfort elsewhere?

Perhaps in the open arms of China's Xi Jinping.

I certainly wouldn't bet on that, but stranger things these days have happened.

Here to talk about Europe's future in the Trump 2.0 era, Finland's President Alexander Stubb.

Alex Stubb, my friend, good to see you back on "GZERO."

- Nice to be here.

- I get the sense, tell me if I'm wrong, that over the last couple of months the Europeans have had some success in nudging President Trump in a more comfortable direction for them, for you, on the Russian-Ukraine issue.

Is that true?

- Yeah, I think I'm carefully optimistic about the direction which we're going through the conversations that I've had here in Davos and of course that we've had with the Trump administration.

I think his messaging to Putin is the correct one.

He wants to win this peace, and I think that's a very important message.

Trump is gonna be solid on this one.

He's looking for a deal, and we, of course, hope that the deal, and I'm sure the deal will be good for Ukraine.

- Lots of different pieces of this.

One is the fact that the Ukrainians need more leverage than they have presently to enter negotiations well.

What do you think that leverage looks like practically?

- Well, I look at it as a linear strategy, where you have short-term, medium-term, and long-term.

Short-term, we need to continue military support, financial support, and political support.

And optimistically, that continues both from the US and from Europe.

Then in the sort of short to medium-term, say three to six months, that's where we need to get Ukraine into a position of strength, where Putin understands that he has to negotiate because his economy is weak, because he's not advancing on the military front.

And here's the messaging that we're getting from President Trump.

I think it's really, really good.

Having said all of that, I still think there are three key principles that we have to stick to at all times.

Independence, sovereignty, so the right for Ukraine to decide, NATO or EU and/or both, and then thirdly-- - [Both] Territorial integrity.

- I knew that was coming, yeah, of course.

- Yeah, and, you know, these are the three key principles of statehood, I think.

And then we go to the long term.

So once things have settled, a deal has been found, we need to make sure that we get reconstruction of Ukraine, Ukraine becomes an EU member.

And I personally think and hope that in the long term, the best security guarantee is for Ukraine to become a NATO member.

But here is the arch that I'm looking at.

- Now, when you say that we have to get Ukraine, we the allies, NATO, Europe, the US, in a better position on the ground, does that mean... How important is it that Ukraine maintains a piece of Kursk in Russia before negotiations actually starts?

- Probably part and parcel of the whole package, because I still think, though I think territory is important.

Listen, I come from a country that lost 10% of our territory in the Winter War Continuation to the Soviet Union, including the areas where my grandparents and my dad were born.

So I don't undermine that.

But in the Finnish case, we maintained independence, lost sovereignty, and lost territory.

And we have to make sure that the two latter don't happen with Ukraine.

Kursk is one piece of the whole package and certainly a negotiating piece, as well, so I do think that strategically, it was a really astute move for the Ukrainians to take that.

- [Ian] A risky move.

- Yeah, to a certain extent risky.

But then again, you know, this war has been a little bit all over the place, and it was good to have a counter offensive.

And I feel quite a lot more comfortable of where we are right now and the capacity of Ukraine to sustain the military impasse in this sort of war of attrition.

- Independent sovereignty, very, very clear.

Territorial integrity, of course, appears to be undermined by a lot of things that the Americans, but not only the Americans, are saying in the sense that, you know, first of all, any ceasefire, it's very hard to imagine the Russians are going to give up the territory that they're presently occupying.

Certainly not all of it.

How do you square that with the principle of full territorial integrity?

- Well, I think in any kind of negotiation, you have to understand that there's a clear separation between a ceasefire and a peace deal.

- Correct.

- And a ceasefire means you've basically stopped fighting.

And in that phase, the most important thing is to maintain and have a security guarantee for Ukraine to make sure that Russia doesn't sort of rearm and attack again.

And then when the peace negotiations begin, that is the time when you probably then talk about territory.

And that's, I think, where it should stand.

This is a long game.

- Do you think that Trump's strong, "I'm gonna beat you up "if you don't do what I want" orientation is making life easier for Zelensky in some ways?

In the sense that it's easier for Zelensky to blame, "I have no choice, I have to bring down the draft age "from where it is right now.

"I have no choice, I have to start negotiation.

"I have no choice, "I have to accept a ceasefire with where it's right now."

How much do you think that actually plays for Zelensky right now?

- Well, obviously I can't speak for Zelensky.

I did have half an hour with him bilaterally, and we discussed the situation.

And my sort of diplomatic sense of where he was was that he was in a comfortable position.

That doesn't mean that he's happy, but it does mean that I think he sees the incoming Trump administration as a game changer.

And they clearly have good communication channels.

And, of course, if you're looking at the early language coming from Trump and his administration, it's good stuff for Ukraine because basically, Trump was putting the blame on Putin and the pressure on Putin, not on Zelensky.

He has a lot of leverage.

You know, we could see that in the Middle East.

I mean, he basically brokered the deal just with his presence and existence, and the Israelis had to take that.

And I think we'll see the same happening, hopefully with Putin.

- And recently, we've seen President Trump talking about the fact that, well, Russia knows that they need an out for this war.

They can't keep fighting.

Do you think that that is an overestimation of how much strength the Americans have in this negotiation?

- No, not at all.

And I think, you know, President Trump knows his metrics and he's seen data on the Russian economy.

And I think the narrative is very clear already coming from his inner circle and elsewhere we hear, and that is that inflation is rampant, interest rates are high, productivity is only on the military front, so it's not a sustainable situation.

The ruble is in a deep dive.

So you can only hold up a war economy to a certain point.

I don't know if I should take comfort in this or not, but our estimate is that when the war ends, say three to six months, the discrepancy between the Russian economy and the West is pretty much the same it was in 1991 when the Soviet Union collapsed.

So we're talking last 35 years, this is Putin's legacy for Russia.

- The United States has just decided to create some of the most important new architecture in the world, in my view, which is on AI, on technology, on data centers.

Some members of NATO and the EU are in tier one, some are not.

Obviously, there's a big question about how to react.

Do you need to cut individual deals with the Trump administration to make sure that you're in?

Do you need to approach it as a region in the Nordics?

Do you need to approach it in the Baltics?

Do you need to approach it as the EU together?

I mean, clearly the Americans have a big advantage in technology right now.

You're allies with the United States.

What's the best approach?

- Well, I mean, I have to be a little bit selfish here, so this is very much my Finland first thinking.

We have a climactic competitive advantage on this.

In other words, we already have many data centers from Google, Microsoft, and many others.

And the reason is very simple.

We know how to deal with data.

We have the capacity to build and we have the climate to sustain.

So in that sense, you know, when we talk with the Americans about different ways in which we work together, technology is a big part.

So for us, when we work with the US, technology is important.

It can be networks like Nokia, or it can be data, or it can be quantum.

Icebreakers are important.

And then defense industry.

We just bought 64 F-35s.

So I feel that Finland as such, bilaterally, is in a comfortable position here.

- Do you think Europe bilaterally is in a comfortable position?

- Well, it's a little bit more difficult to build data centers down south, I have to admit that.

But then, again, we are part of an internal market.

We have the same rules on data and data protection and privacy.

So in that sense, I think we should look at this as a team effort.

- Team effort in terms of democracy in Europe?

I mean, when you see someone like Elon Musk, who doesn't have a formal position in the Trump administration, supporting what he has with AfD coming after the Brits.

How do you relate to that?

- Yeah, I don't feel very comfortable with that, to be honest.

You know, in a sense, I've been an avid user of Twitter and now come X-- - With me, absolutely.

- Exactly, since 2009.

And, you know, I'm not extremely excited about the direction in which the platform is going, you know, under the auspices of free speech.

I mean, I'm all for free speech, but free speech needs to come with responsibility.

And the truth is that Elon Musk is a very powerful man.

You know, he has a voice, and a voice can be a weapon.

And clearly, he's now giving his voice not so much to, say, science, and space, and electric vehicles or neural laces, he's giving it to right-wing European parties.

No matter what the ideological approach is, that has to be addressed at some point.

And I don't know how the European authorities are gonna deal with it.

I feel very uncomfortable with some of the elements of the extreme right in Europe, that's for sure.

- More broadly than just Elon, regulatory approach on things like social media?

I mean, clearly very different than the United States.

Do the Europeans need a lot more?

- Well, I mean, I was in a big conversation with European tech leaders and political leaders.

And the sort of approach there was much more optimistic than I had actually originally expected.

But I do think that we need to start talking about the impact of social media.

There are two elements here.

One is artificial intelligence, which, of course, is changing, you know, the way in which we communicate and is impeding on our individual autonomy because of the way in which algorithms have been set up.

So we need to understand that, as a technology, AI is not an instrument, it's actually an agent.

And with that, given that traditional media is not functioning as a filter anymore in the public discourse, we need to sort of adapt our brains and our politics to a new technological era, and I think social media platforms are a big part of that.

- Final question.

You know, this week, we've seen a lot of animal spirits and even exuberance from the Americans.

We've seen a lot of self-criticism and a lot of deep concern about where Europe is going to be economically, technologically, more broadly, the staying power of the most important experiment, super national governance that's ever happened in the world.

Talk about why you think that is either wrong, temporary, deserves pushback, because I know you don't agree with it.

- Well, I have a counter question.

How is that different from the past 25 years here at Davos?

- It depends on-- - I mean, that's always-- - It depends, it moves.

It's stronger in that direction than I've ever seen it the last 15 years.

- Well, I think the human mind is such that we have a tendency to forget.

I mean, I remember when President Xi Jinping was here in 2017 talking about multilateralism, trade, and cooperation.

I remember in the 1990s when Europe was racing ahead with mobile communication, and the 2000s when Europe was supposed to become the most competitive economy in the world.

But Europe is not a utopia.

You know, we're still here in Davos.

It's still one of the most important forums, I think, for intellectual engagement of where the world is going.

And, you know, perhaps, and this is not a cynical statement, but just out of experience, usually what happens is, you know, there's a crisis, then there's chaos, and then there's a suboptimal solution.

So perhaps we just have to get used to the fact that Europe is more than an international organization, less than a state.

My hope is always that democracies are resilient.

We have a tendency to forget in this sort of authoritarian jargon that, you know, authoritarianism in Germany didn't last, authoritarianism in the Soviet Union didn't last.

So at the end of the day, democracy is messy, but it wins.

- So we go from chaos, to crisis, to suboptimal-- - Solution.

- Solution.

We're in chaos right now.

What do you think the crisis is?

- Well, I think the crisis is of international order.

So the international institution's norms and rules that were created post World War II and then revamped a little bit after the Cold War are under attack.

So we're now living for approximately five to six years in multilateral transactional disorder.

And at the end of this period, I hope that we come up with a multilateral cooperative order and a rebalancing of the new world order before it's too late.

- So, you're like a wonky international affairs strategist, right?

We never have people like that elected in the United States.

How come it's okay in Finland?

- (chuckles) I don't know, you have to ask my compatriots.

They're very nice to me.

I really appreciate it.

- President of Finland, Alex Stubb.

Great to see you.

- Thanks, nice seeing you.

- Cheers.

(soft music) And now we turn to DVF in Davos, Diane von Furstenberg.

That is, "GZERO"'s Tony Maciulis recently sat down with the legendary fashion icon to talk about the "masculine wave," as she calls it, dominating politics and business.

Take it away, Tony.

- [Tony] Her name is synonymous with style.

- Diane von Furstenberg.

(audience applauds) - [Tony] In 1974, she took the fashion world by storm with a simple and elegant invention: the wrap dress.

Today, she's still at the top of her game.

And a new documentary, "Woman in Charge," tells the story of how she got there.

- I want you to be strong.

I want you to be the woman you want to be.

- Diane von Furstenberg, one of the few people cool enough to be known by their three initials, DVF.

You're receiving the Crystal Award here in Davos alongside Rieken Yamamoto, the architect, David Beckham.

Not too shabby.

- Well, I mean, first of all, I'm not quite sure why I get this award, but it's very prestigious, and I'm happy.

So I've been working on my speech all night and making it worse and worse.

- Well, you are getting the award because of your lifelong commitment to women's rights and gender equality.

It's 2025.

Why do you think we still have to have that conversation?

- You know, the world is changing so much.

Everything is changing.

There's definitely a masculine, a very masculine wave that's coming upon us.

And part of it is also because women became very aggressive.

You know, so I think we all have to calm down.

And I believe that women always have the solution, and I think we may have to use a little seduction again.

- (chuckles) What does that mean exactly?

- Well, it means that fight for ideas, but present the ideas in a way that is a little bit more with it as opposed to against it, and sometimes make people believe that your idea is their idea.

It doesn't matter, as long as it goes.

I mean, in a lot of ways, women are regressing, but at the same time, when you meet the very young generation, the Gen Z, I mean, they are really not regressing.

- In what way?

- They're doing things, they're inventing things, and they're hopeful.

I mean, they're in their 20s, you know?

So yeah, the situation today is very worrisome, is very scary, because so much is moving and so much that we can't control.

And sometimes it's good not to control.

So I think it's also good to try to focus on a daily basis on ourselves, each one of us, and on our own power, because you cannot underestimate the power we have on ourselves first.

And then when we have it on ourselves and we feel in charge, we can practice the power of kindness.

- You are incredibly well known, if not best known, for an iconic wrap dress 50 years ago, introduced.

Do you believe that fashion can be a political statement?

- Well, fashion is not a political statement.

Fashion is a reflection of the zeitgeist, right?

So fashion somehow reflects what's going on.

It's not the other way around.

And fashion is not just clothes.

Fashion is what we eat, how we live, how we speak.

We have too many political statements.

I think everybody needs to calm down and focus on what is good and focus on issues that make sense.

- I went down a rabbit hole of reading a bunch of quotes from Diane von Furstenberg.

"Harper's Bazaar" in 2021 published this list of 50 quotes.

There were so many great little nuggets.

But you said, "I never knew what I wanted to do, "but I knew the kind of woman I wanted to be."

What kind of woman was that?

- I wanted to be a woman in charge.

And I became a woman in charge, and I became a woman in charge because of a little dress.

And because it was a dress, I could share it.

I mean, it's a dress that brought confidence.

It brought confidence to me because I was successful, but also to women who would wear it.

So more than anything, you know, I became a conduit for a certain freedom.

- [Tony] In Davos, Switzerland.

I'm Tony Macilius for "GZERO World."

(gentle music) - And now to the three-fingered felty little world of "Puppet Regime."

Roll tape.

- Good afternoon.

After very strongly renaming the Gulf of Mexico as Gulf of America, we will be making further changes effective immediately.

Europe will now be known as "America Plaza East."

The Panama Canal will be known as "Trump America Canal of Trump."

And of course, Turkey will now be known as "Chicken."

Why are we doing it?

Because we can.

What are they gonna do about it?

Does Turkey wanna beef over being called chicken?

Well, call them "Beef."

What else?

Oh, also, we're going to name Hungary "Thirsty."

But don't worry, the prime minister there will do whatever I tell him.

(puppet mumbling) Why are we doing this?

Because America will no longer allow people to tell us what to call them.

It's like the pronouns, it's over.

Sorry, what's that?

Zelensky's on line three?

Put him on speaker.

What else do you want?

We're cutting off the aid of-- - Mr. Trump, we demand that you call our country Trumpkraine.

- Trumpkraine?

Boy, I always thought of it more of a Me-Kraine than a You-Kraine, but tell me more.

- Greater Trumpkraine.

- Greatest Trumpkraine.

- Deal, and we will also rename Donbas "Donaldbas" and retake from Russia.

- Deal, deal, I love it.

Sally, tell Pete Hegseth to give these Trumpkrainians whatever they want.

♪ Puppet Regime ♪ - That's our show this week.

Come back next week.

And if you like what you've seen, or even if you don't, but you wanna stick it to the globalists or the anti-globalists, or somewhere in between, we don't mind, why don't you check us out at gzeromedia.com?

(upbeat music) (gentle music) - [Narrator 1] Funding for "GZERO World" is provided by our lead sponsor, Prologis.

- [Narrator 2] Every day all over the world, Prologis helps businesses of all sizes lower their carbon footprint and scale their supply chains with a portfolio of logistics and real estate and an end-to-end solutions platform addressing the critical initiatives of global logistics today.

Learn more at prologis.com.

- [Narrator 1] And by... Cox Enterprises is proud to support "GZERO."

Cox is working to create an impact in areas like sustainable agriculture, clean tech, healthcare, and more.

Cox, A Family of Businesses.

Additional funding provided by Jerre and Mary Joy Stead, Carnegie Corporation of New York, and... (upbeat music) (bright music)