[music playing] ANNOUNCER: The following program is a production of Ozarks Public Television.

Good evening and welcome to "Sense Of Community".

I'm Jennifer Moore.

Have you ever felt like you could write the perfect novel?

Or perhaps you feel poetry welling up inside you.

Tonight, my guest is Jennifer Mervin who teaches English and writing at Missouri State University.

Stay tuned as we learn more about opportunities for writers in the Ozarks.

[music playing] ANNOUNCER 2: Welcome to "Sense Of Community".

"Sense Of Community" is a public affairs presentation of Ozarks Public Television.

Jen Mervin, thank you so much for joining us.

Oh, thank you for having me.

JENNIFER MOORE: I'm super excited about this evening's topic because as you know, I consider myself somewhat of a writer.

And I know you are a tremendous writer.

But first, I want to kind of peel back the layers of the onion for all of those viewers out there who are just wondering what it means to be a writer.

I'm curious how you would define that.

What is a writer?

That's a really big question.

It is.

I think as a writing teacher, I probably ask and answer that question myself in about a million different ways, depending on the day, depending on what we're reading.

I think today I would probably say that being a writer means that you are someone who is engaged in the practice of writing.

And I think that writers are often born from a love of reading.

I think most writers, you know, found a book, several books that changed their lives.

Maybe they spent more time in books than they did anywhere else.

And then at one point decided to try their hand at that.

To try their hand at making that magic on the page for themselves.

So I think, you know, I hear from people, oh, I'm not really a writer because I haven't published anything.

Or I'm not really a writer because I've only shared my writing with my close friends and family.

And I haven't had the opportunity or the guts to share it with someone else.

And I would say to that person, no, you are a writer.

If you are writing, you are a writer.

You are engaged in the practice of writing, and that's really meaningful.

And so I think a generous definition of the term, especially if you're first starting out.

And especially if you are someone that's been doing it a long time, and that bar of what it means to be a writer slowly grows and feels more unobtainable.

[laughs] The bar grows higher and higher.

I think that generosity is so important, because I see sometimes writers even get so intimidated by the idea of what a writer might be, or if they're meeting that definition, just kind of avoid it all altogether.

Which is, of course, what you never want to do.

Yeah, I like that.

You don't have to be published to be a writer.

You don't even have to have a blog to have a writer, you just are engaged in the practice of writing.

So what are some of the different genres that ordinary people who are out there in their living rooms or kitchens or bedrooms in the Ozarks, what can they dip into in terms of different genres, different types of writing?

JENNIFER MERVIN: Oh my gosh, there are so many different types of writing.

For me, being a writing teacher, I mostly see my students coming in, wanting to write maybe short stories.

My students that come as part of the MSU 62 program, which is a fabulous program that hopefully we'll talk about later, where you can come in and if you're over the age of 62, to take a class at MSU for free.

And often those students will come in wanting to write about their lives.

They want to write memoir.

They want to record things that have happened to them or work through things that happen to them.

I think that for new writers or people that are kind of looking to get into writing, starting with a short form can be really helpful.

So maybe like poetry or a flash essay, you know, maybe an essay under thousand words.

Or a short story versus "I'm going to write the memoir of my entire life of 65 years."

Or I'm going to write this 300 page fantasy long form fantasy novel.

I think sometimes that can be a little daunting at first.

So that's why, when we teach our introductory writing classes, we start with the short form.

We look at a flash short story under 500 words, and see what you can make happen in that short space.

But yeah, there are so many different ways you can write.

I personally really love reading almost every kind of writing.

I'm a big reader of across all different genres, all different narrative modes.

I also teach graphic narratives, so that mix of art and text.

So people who love to draw, lay that writing over that drawing, make a comic.

I think most of us write even if we don't think we're writing.

Maybe we write a lyric email to a friend, or we write a love letter to our partner.

Or we write a little quick lunch note to our child in their lunchbox.

You can just start and sort of think, OK, how can I get experimental with this?

How can I get magical?

I think one way that you can think, what kind of narrative mode do I want to write in?

Look at what you're reading.

Are you reading a lot of novels?

Maybe you're a novelist.

Do you love the short story collections?

Do you love just that little twist in the gut when you read a short story?

Write a short story.

And then you can start getting more, I think, maybe formal with your experimentation.

So one thing that I really love about poetry is that when you use, for example, maybe a formal approach to a poem there are restrictions on what you can do.

And while someone might think, oh, that's restrictive of my creative freedom, it actually, paradoxically I think, creates a lot more freedom.

So maybe trying with a villanelle or a sonnet or some kind of structure.

And you can do that with prose, too.

There's lots of different ways that you can do that.

Maybe write a short story where you have to bring in a particular word or phrase, like a refrain maybe in different ways and reiterate it in different ways throughout the piece and then see what happens.

JENNIFER MOORE: Oh my goodness, that's so exciting to think about people getting started.

I can imagine people watching this program and hearing just the encouragement come from you already.

I should mention, I was fortunate enough to take a memoir class with you several years ago as part of my graduate studies.

And you taught me what memoir is, actually.

And I remember I came into it as a journalist and just reporting, reporting, reporting facts that had happened.

But you really had this teaching moment, you said, that's not memoir, that's reporting.

There's a difference.

And so I'm wondering if you could explain to our audience, the difference between autobiography or reporting, and actual memoir.

Where there's this almost back and forth of this deeper reflection of like, oh, looking at that time from this perspective.

I mean, I think for me and I always quote my fabulous writing teacher, Debra Gwartney, who is the voice in my head and my professor, who always says that memoir is about the self.

It's about the big questions that we ask about the self, the questions that keep us up at night.

And memoir is, no matter what you're writing about, whether it's a dramatic event that happened in your life, or a quiet moment in the grocery store where you were stopped in your tracks and had this memory or a connection that you made.

It's asking a question about yourself, and then deepening the question.

So Debra Gwartney would always say, and she's such a stunning writer, she would always say, memoir is not about answering the question, it's about deepening the question.

Which I really love because I think writing memoir can be very tricky.

Because I think there's this instinct to say, oh, I'm going to resolve.

I'm going to resolve that conflict in my life.

Or I'm going to resolve that hard thing that happened or that troubled relationship that still keeps me up.

And if you just let that pressure go and just say, I'm going to just ask a question about that.

I'm going to say, who was that person who did that?

[laughs] Who was that version of myself?

And how does that person relate to the person I am now?

And what recognitions can that bring me?

What clarity that bring me?

And then what new questions does that bring up?

And to me, that's what I love about memoir writing.

And I teach a lot of creative nonfiction now, and I loved working with you in our time together.

So great.

But I love just watching students relax about that, because I think memoir can sometimes carry with it a lot of emotional pressure.

And once you can just let that go, and also realize that the quiet moments are also so worthy of our attention and worthy of our writing, that we don't have to have maybe like super dramatic or wild lives to write a really beautiful and moving piece of memoir writing.

That can sometimes really open us up.

JENNIFER MOORE: And I can really appreciate-- what I'm hearing from you is that there's not-- sometimes people can put too much pressure on themselves to try to get published.

But there's just a lot of value in the creative form of just writing, just laying it down.

So how does one get started getting into writing?

I would say start with reading, that's what I would always say.

In a big way, and also on a practical level.

Like before you sit down to write, let your writing session be led with some reading.

So you can read in the tradition of the writing that you're going to sit down to write, which sometimes can work.

I personally really like reading poetry before I sit down to write, because poetry kind of disrupts the way I've used language all day.

And reminds me to be more playful and more experimental in my way of seeing, in my way of expressing myself in the line.

So I've moved to reading some poetry before I sit down to write.

Very voicy poets, that will just move me from the way I use language in my daily life to the way I want to use language in my writing.

So I think read, read widely, understand the literature you want to be participating in as a writer.

Stretch yourself.

A great way to find fantastic books is to maybe go to your local independent bookstore and talk to your booksellers about the books you're interested in, they are ready and available to talk to you about books all the time.

And then when you sit down to write, just take that pressure off of yourself that it has to be perfect the first time around.

Consider it almost like practicing an instrument.

You wouldn't think twice about practicing your scales and then just letting that go.

But for some reason when we sit down to write, I can sometimes feel this myself and I hear this from students a lot where they're like, it just wasn't flowing.

It just wasn't coming to me.

And that's OK, it's not supposed to every time.

It slowly builds and the more you practice it, the less precious it becomes.

And then the more fun and open you can be about it.

And then I would say just remember that the beautiful thing about writing, and George Saunders talks about this a lot, who I just adore.

He says, with writing, we have the opportunity and the time to be our best selves.

So don't rush.

So he talks about that in the context of revision.

So revision is the one place in our lives where we have so many chances to be our best selves on the page.

He says to be smarter, kinder, funnier.

So the more you revisit something, the better you can be on the page.

So I would say, don't rush.

Some people enjoy writing by themselves, maybe in the quiet of a morning.

I personally really love writing when my students write, I get a lot done.

I'm like, I'm sitting here, making them write.

I should write too.

[laughter] Some people enjoy writing with an accountability partner.

I have a dear friend who lives in St. Louis and meets up with another friend at a coffee shop, and they just sit across from each other and drink coffee and write.

And there's no pressure to talk, they're just there to write and hold each other accountable.

So I think however you can trick yourself into writing, sometimes you have to trick yourself.

Just do it and be kind to yourself.

It doesn't happen every day.

JENNIFER MOORE: And that first draft and the art of revision is definitely part of writing.

I love how you said that.

I know that I have really found that to be true as well.

I would love to hear from you, any resources or clubs or opportunities for writers in our community to gather, to get support, that accountability like you mentioned.

Yeah.

Well, luckily I'm, of course, most familiar with opportunities in Springfield.

So I would encourage people that are watching to look to resources in their local community.

Maybe the local universities, again, independent bookstores, libraries, places where literature is happening.

But here in town, I can definitely say if you're over 62, sign up for the MSU 62 and come and write with us and our creative writing classes.

I just love my MSU 62 students.

Here locally, I know, actually a former student of mine has just started a writing group called Making Pages, and they meet at a coffee shop.

So you can join them on Facebook and find out some more.

There are some open mic nights, sometimes writing and knowing that you're going to share that writing with someone can get you moving.

So if you are building toward an open mic night, I know that Big Mama's has some open mic sessions, and Galley's.

At Pagination bookshop, we're hoping to open up open mic nights again in the summer, once the semester's over.

Opening up that opportunity again, once a month.

So open mics can be great.

I actually teach a writing retreat called the River Pretty Writer's Retreat that is at Dawt Mill Resort.

And we meet in October and April of every year.

And it's just a three day writing retreat that's open to everyone.

And we bring in guest authors from all over the country for workshops in poetry, creative nonfiction, and fiction.

And it's all generative.

So in other words, you don't have to come with a project.

You don't have to come with a finished piece.

You just bring yourself, and your notebook, and your pen, and your sunglasses.

And you sit and you enjoy the workshop.

We usually start with a craft talk where we talk about a technique to try, and then we go separate, and then come back and share.

So it's been a great community for me.

I've taught there for about 11 years, and it's something where, when I think about my own writing practice, that community and that twice yearly meet up for three days has really helped me with much of my own work.

JENNIFER MOORE: Tell me a little bit more about the MSU 62 program, particularly in how seniors who are of that age category could get involved.

Yeah.

So I believe it's pretty easy, I actually looked it up so I want to give any misinformation.

So if you just Google "MSU 62 Missouri State University", it will take you to the application form.

And it's basically open to anyone over the age of 62 where you can apply, and you can take one class where your fees are waived.

And so it's up to people what they want to take, you can take a creative writing class in fiction, poetry, creative nonfiction, or graphic narrative.

So pretty exciting.

And you can take any class, I mean, I'm just talking about the writing specific ones.

What obstacles do you find that writers face when they go to put words on the page?

JENNIFER MERVIN: Oof.

There are so many.

Linda Barry, who is one of my favorite cartoonists, she talks about the plague of the two questions.

Is this good?

Does this suck?

And how these two questions-- when we're little, we just make art.

We just write stories.

And if you meet a little kid, or like, I have a little son.

And when he was little, he would just draw and make a story.

He would just make a comic while we're waiting for food at a restaurant.

And it was just this compulsive creativity.

And she writes about how we're all born with that, but at some point, those two questions come in.

And it's this self-- it's these little, Anne Lamott calls them, "the critic on your shoulder."

These little voices that say what you're doing isn't good enough.

And so I think there's sometimes this emotional or psychic roadblock that prevents us from writing, because we have this idea like, I don't have a degree in writing.

Or I've never published anything.

So I think to me that's the first thing to overcome.

And Linda Barry, who's fabulous and writes a lot about creativity, she says the way to get over those two questions is just try to get back to that playful place of writing and drawing as a joyful practice.

So just getting back to that childlike space.

I also think that sometimes people feel very isolated and don't have a community around them saying, yes, you can do it.

I hope you know that, yes, you can do it.

I'm just going to tell you that right now.

Jennifer and I both write, and we're going to tell you, yes, you can do it.

So finding a community can sometimes be that first step.

So even if just reaching out to your friend group or family members.

Anyone you know who maybe writes or is interested in literature or reads, maybe not to have them read your work, but maybe just hold some space to write together.

Where-- can we meet over FaceTime and we just sit together and write?

And just have that community.

So I think sometimes that those can feel like some obstacles to writing, but I think once you start looking, you'll see opportunities pop up everywhere.

Honestly, I have never had anyone be negative when I tell them I want to try something with writing.

And I feel very fortunate in that regard because I know probably some people do.

And I've heard this before from students, where they had a hurtful comment from a teacher and it just made them never want to write again.

And I'm just here to say, let those voices go and just listen to that inner voice of creativity.

Thankfully, submitting your work for publication is so accessible.

It's so easy to do, there are a lot of online tutorials.

You can go and get some great information on the web.

I highly recommend to any writer, NewPages.com or PoetsAndWriters.com, or actually I think it might be PoetsAndWriters.org.

But just some good, very professional websites and resources.

And you can always email me, you can find me on the Missouri State website and I'll be happy to share the long handout that I always give all my students about submitting for publication.

Wonderful.

I was just going to say, we'll be sure to include some of those websites at the very end of tonight's program.

But in the meantime, that leads to my next question, which is exactly pretty much that.

And in that, what is the range of options for people who want to start writing and see their work published?

From maybe a personal blog or website, to in the news media, to publications elsewhere.

What are some of the ones that you would recommend or that you've seen people do here?

JENNIFER MERVIN: Well, there are so many ways to share your writing, and I think it's very personal.

Some people really feel empowered by sharing their writing in a blog, or on their website, or in a newsletter, or in a Substack, or some kind of that form, which I think is fantastic.

For others who maybe want to move into more traditional publishing venues, I would caution against publishing their creative writing on a website or a blog because most literary magazines would consider that previously published.

So I would say if you did want to submit your work to a literary journal or a magazine, or an anthology or something of that sort, to keep that off the internet.

And then, yeah, maybe follow the more traditional submitting to literary magazines.

And it's really easy to find a list of great literary journals, again.

Poets and Writers is a great resource.

If you go to NewPages.com and click on Literary Journals, there's a nice A to Z listing of all peer reviewed magazines.

And you can click through and see what might meet your writing.

Let's say you have a short story that is more speculative in nature, like maybe a magical realist short story or something that flirts with science fiction or some kind of speculative narrative mode.

You can go look through and see what kind of literary magazines are publishing that sort of work.

You can always go to a library, look at literary journals.

At Missouri State in Siceluff Hall on the third floor, we have two huge bookshelves full of literary journals that anyone is welcome to come and peruse.

So there's lots of ways.

If you want to publish a book, many different ways to do that.

I mean, gosh, I own Pagination bookshop and I see a lot of writers come in with all kinds of different ways that they are trying to get their writing out to readers.

I'm probably more familiar with the more traditional publishing routes versus self-publishing, but there are definitely tutorials, workshops that you can sign up for where people that have that experience in that vein of publishing can sort of walk you through.

JENNIFER MOORE: And then lastly for those who do find a literary journal or a magazine that they think is a good fit for them, the next step is usually-- and correct me if I'm wrong, is usually just making a pitch to that editor or to the magazine.

And that usually involves some kind of a submission like emailing or a query letter sometimes.

Is that usually how things work as well?

JENNIFER MERVIN: Yeah.

So for a literary journal, it's actually-- you actually have your piece ready to go.

So it's not really a pitch kind of situation unless you're writing for, maybe like a more traditional magazine that flirts with more of the journalism side or reportage side.

So for a traditional literary magazine, you would have, let's say you wrote like a 2000 word memoir, short memoir, or an essay we would call it.

And you are ready to submit to a literary magazine.

So you have your essay, you've edited it, you have looked at their formatting guidelines, you've double spaced it, put it into Times New Roman 12 point font, and you're ready to go.

Yes, you would just follow their submission guidelines.

So for most of them, there's a little online form that you fill out where you enter the title of your piece and then a cover letter.

Which is just a simple, very simple letter where you basically say, Dear, and then you look up the name of the editor, Dear so-and-so, the editor, thank you for considering my essay.

And then you put your title.

I so appreciate the opportunity.

You can write a little bit about yourself, less is more, I think.

Thank you.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely, Jen.

Then you attach your file and click Submit.

And it's really-- it's not too tricky to do.

And I would say that the more you do it, like anything else, you just get used to it.

And it's fun.

And, of course, rejection is a big part of it.

And I submit so much and I feel very fortunate if I have maybe three or four pieces published in a year.

It took me a long time to get there, too.

You just are used to it, and then the more you send out-- I really love how a lot of my writer friends frame the submission process, where they aim for a certain amount of rejections a year versus a certain amount of acceptances.

Oh, I love that, because it is very common.

Yes.

So they'll aim for 100 rejections.

Wow.

So that's a lot.

It's a lot of submitting, way more submitting than I do.

But it's wonderful, because you frame it then as I'm putting myself out there, and that's the goal.

JENNIFER MOORE: Yes, you do need thick skin.

But it's great to hear from a pro that there are rejections for everybody.

JENNIFER MERVIN: Oh, yes.

So unfortunately, we are out of time.

Jen Mervin, thank you so much for walking us through the creative process of becoming a writer and what that means.

Oh.

JENNIFER MOORE: I really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

I really appreciate it.

JENNIFER MOORE: Our pleasure.

And we are going to leave you with some websites and phone numbers where you can go for more information if you're interested.

As always, thank you so much for watching and good night.

ANNOUNCER 2: Here is where you can find more information about the topics covered in this program.

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